Saubier.com  



Go Back   Saubier.com > Saubier.com Forums > Small Caliber Discussion Board

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 09-27-2019, 07:09 AM
Oso Polaris Oso Polaris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 456
Default

Yes, I all but self-reported that I corrected my misquote. However, the new modern standard is 21' in 1 second as evidenced by numerous YouTube videos trying to debunk or find techniques to beat or cheat the inevitable.

No need to be that accurate... unless of course it is a charging bear.

Last edited by Oso Polaris; 09-27-2019 at 07:12 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-27-2019, 12:40 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Tomball/Klein, Texas
Posts: 3,989
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oso Polaris View Post
Yes, I all but self-reported that I corrected my misquote. However, the new modern standard is 21' in 1 second as evidenced by numerous YouTube videos trying to debunk or find techniques to beat or cheat the inevitable.

No need to be that accurate... unless of course it is a charging bear.

In fact, for those who truly want or need relevant information, very few of them watch YouTube as their source......

Today, many police departments use a 30 foot perimeter for an inherent danger zone. And the fact that most perps are not olympic track stars with a knife, the 1.5 second rule still exists in their training routines.

Don't believe everything that Joe Badazz tells you on YouTube....... Many Joes have totally misinterpreted the Rule for their own benefit while in front of their home camera.

And for another fact, a bear will cover the distance far faster than will 99.9% of all "well-trained and speedy" criminals with a knife will. On that we can agree. "No need to be that accurate..." Tell that to a police officer who has had to utilize the training and his service hand gun to thwart an inherent danger coming at him.

-BCB
__________________


I miss mean Tweets, competence, and $1.79 per gallon gasoline.

Yo no creo en santos que orinan.

Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and just get used to the idea.

Going keyboard postal over something that you read on the internet is like seeing a pile of dog crap on the sidewalk and choosing to step in it rather than stepping around it.

If You're Afraid To Offend, You Can't Be Honest - Thomas Paine
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-27-2019, 12:59 PM
hunter67wa hunter67wa is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 23
Default

I agree with bcb the 21' rule is a guideline. You have to take in the totality of all the circumstances. We run the drill with the students all the time just so they can see how fast the general times are for 21'. You can quickly walk it in 2.5.
Stay away from youtube for that!
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 09-27-2019, 04:07 PM
Oso Polaris Oso Polaris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 456
Default

The YouTube comment was tongue in cheek. I agree that you shouldn't believe everything on the internet, and for that matter anything that gets posted on a forum...this thread included.

I agree that the 21' rule is a guideline, especially since it doesn't take into account the amount of time to process the shock/surprise and identify the threat before moving into action and drawing your pistol. Moreover, Bears will cover 2x distance (approx. 43') in same 1 second (30mph). Even if you do everything right, very few people can even clear their holster in 1 second. The entire purpose of my reference to any of this is that any bear attack in which you are charged most likely will end with your shooting occurring either very close or point blank if you even get your gun out. The 21' guideline was something most people have heard of and can get their head around, and it represents a similar situation where the assailant is rapidly closing the gap. The vast majority of hunters/gun owners have never practiced speed shooting drills or drawing from their holster, unless they have been active participant in IDPA, USPSA, or quick draw cowboy action.

Final thoughts - if you start drawing your gun when bear is 25 yards away then you might get 1-2 shots at point blank. As pointed out by others...Bear usually wins.

Enough Said...

Last edited by Oso Polaris; 09-27-2019 at 04:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-27-2019, 05:12 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Tomball/Klein, Texas
Posts: 3,989
Default

Boy, howdy......... I sure hope that bears don't start watching YouTube videos and discover all of our secrets. No one will be safe........

-BCB
__________________


I miss mean Tweets, competence, and $1.79 per gallon gasoline.

Yo no creo en santos que orinan.

Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and just get used to the idea.

Going keyboard postal over something that you read on the internet is like seeing a pile of dog crap on the sidewalk and choosing to step in it rather than stepping around it.

If You're Afraid To Offend, You Can't Be Honest - Thomas Paine
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 10-02-2019, 09:36 AM
moorepower moorepower is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,549
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oso Polaris View Post
The YouTube comment was tongue in cheek. I agree that you shouldn't believe everything on the internet, and for that matter anything that gets posted on a forum...this thread included.

I agree that the 21' rule is a guideline, especially since it doesn't take into account the amount of time to process the shock/surprise and identify the threat before moving into action and drawing your pistol. Moreover, Bears will cover 2x distance (approx. 43') in same 1 second (30mph). Even if you do everything right, very few people can even clear their holster in 1 second. The entire purpose of my reference to any of this is that any bear attack in which you are charged most likely will end with your shooting occurring either very close or point blank if you even get your gun out. The 21' guideline was something most people have heard of and can get their head around, and it represents a similar situation where the assailant is rapidly closing the gap. The vast majority of hunters/gun owners have never practiced speed shooting drills or drawing from their holster, unless they have been active participant in IDPA, USPSA, or quick draw cowboy action.

Final thoughts - if you start drawing your gun when bear is 25 yards away then you might get 1-2 shots at point blank. As pointed out by others...Bear usually wins.

Enough Said...
Your assuming in a bear covering 43' in a second, that it is running 30 mph either when you see it or instantly attains 30 mph. The bear will take a some time to react to you and to accelerate. IF its already running full speed when you first see it, you are not paying attention at all and possibly are deaf, and you are screwed. The best way to avoid a black bear attack is to not go where a black bear would be with it's cub.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 10-03-2019, 12:50 AM
Oso Polaris Oso Polaris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 456
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by moorepower View Post
Your assuming in a bear covering 43' in a second, that it is running 30 mph either when you see it or instantly attains 30 mph. The bear will take a some time to react to you and to accelerate. IF its already running full speed when you first see it, you are not paying attention at all and possibly are deaf, and you are screwed. The best way to avoid a black bear attack is to not go where a black bear would be with it's cub.
I was thinking that right answer is bring both a 3-legged dog and an asthmatic friend!!!
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 10-03-2019, 01:35 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Tomball/Klein, Texas
Posts: 3,989
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oso Polaris View Post
I was thinking that right answer is bring both a 3-legged dog and an asthmatic friend!!!

A few years ago I read where the 25 ACP is the perfect bear gun.

Always take a "friend" and a 25 ACP with you for extra safety in bear country. If necessary to avoid a bear attack, shoot the "friend" in the kneecap with the 25 ACP and then run like h3ll.

-BCB
__________________


I miss mean Tweets, competence, and $1.79 per gallon gasoline.

Yo no creo en santos que orinan.

Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and just get used to the idea.

Going keyboard postal over something that you read on the internet is like seeing a pile of dog crap on the sidewalk and choosing to step in it rather than stepping around it.

If You're Afraid To Offend, You Can't Be Honest - Thomas Paine

Last edited by Bayou City Boy; 10-03-2019 at 02:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.