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  #1  
Old 06-21-2019, 11:38 PM
Oso Polaris Oso Polaris is offline
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Default .17 cal Bullets & Seating Depth

If you read some of my previous posts, I have been figuring out the ins/outs of an older Sako chambered in .17-222. It has a long throat, which has made it more challenging to find a bullet that would have enough base in the case neck but also long enough to reduce the jump. The barrel twist rate is 1:10, which from reading and member advise is not fast enough to run anything heavier than the 20gr bullets. The 25gr bullets require 1:9 twist... the 25gr Vmax would have been the winner but my twist is too slow.

There is a recent thread on the 15.5gr NTX, which was reported to be longer than most of the 20gr bullets so I bought a box. The reason for this post is to provide a comparative picture of popular .17 cal bullets (sorry no 25 gr Berger in photo) alongside the new 15.5gr NTX bullet. Using my Hornady COAL gauge and a fired case from this rifle that I modified:



The black line on each bullet was traced around neck of case at Max COAL (bullet touching the lands).



The 15.5gr NTX is same length as 20gr Vmax. Ignoring the boattail, the NTX has more bearing surface inside the case neck than the 20gr bullets. The ogee on the NTX is noticeably less graceful and more angular than the other bullets' profiles. It will be several weeks before I can do some range testing.

Max Coal
15.5gr Hornady NTX 2.073"
20gr Nosler Varmageddon 2.101"
20gr Nightmare Extreme 2.105"
20gr Hornady Vmax 2.165"
25gr Hornady Vmax 2.161"

Last edited by Oso Polaris; 06-22-2019 at 03:09 AM.
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Old 06-22-2019, 12:11 AM
Silverfox Silverfox is offline
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Check out the 25 gr. T-000 bullets that Chan Nagel produces.
You might be able to find someone who has a stash of the old 25 gr. Hornady hollowpoint bullets someplace.

The 25 gr. Nagel bullets are very accurate in two of my 1 in 9 twist .17 Remington rifles.
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Last edited by Silverfox; 06-22-2019 at 12:14 AM.
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  #3  
Old 06-22-2019, 01:33 AM
Kdog Kdog is offline
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Oso,

You should have no problem shooting any 25 grain bullet in your 1/10 twist. The 25 gr Vmax should perform well - especially with the non boat tail/long bearing surface. I recommend that you work up loads for the 25 Vmax or the 25 Nagels that were suggested by Silver Fox, and see how they group.

Ken
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Old 06-22-2019, 03:07 AM
Oso Polaris Oso Polaris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kdog View Post
Oso,

You should have no problem shooting any 25 grain bullet in your 1/10 twist. The 25 gr Vmax should perform well - especially with the non boat tail/long bearing surface. I recommend that you work up loads for the 25 Vmax or the 25 Nagels that were suggested by Silver Fox, and see how they group.

Ken
Ken,

Thanks. I had bought a box of the 25gr Vmax so I was going to try them out of curiosity. I plan to give the 20gr Vmax and 15.5gr NTX a run as well. The Varmageddon and Varmint Nightmare just don't have enough bearing surface for my liking and I don't like large jumps to the lands. Now I need to form some brass to get this rolling.

Last edited by Oso Polaris; 06-22-2019 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 06-22-2019, 10:01 PM
coyotespotter coyotespotter is offline
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Don't get hung up about having some jump, many rifles shoot better off the lands. Some bullets require a long jump. Also make sure you are not trimming your brass shorter than necessary, this along could allow you to seat closer to the lands. Some 1/10 barrels shoot the 25 vmax well, my Shilen is ok with fast powders. The Hornady 25 hp should shoot in your barrel and is good for coyote.
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Old 06-22-2019, 10:41 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coyotespotter View Post
Don't get hung up about having some jump, many rifles shoot better off the lands. Some bullets require a long jump. Also make sure you are not trimming your brass shorter than necessary, this along could allow you to seat closer to the lands. Some 1/10 barrels shoot the 25 vmax well, my Shilen is ok with fast powders. The Hornady 25 hp should shoot in your barrel and is good for coyote.

Very good advice on all of the things mentioned, in spite of what you read daily on the internet about bullets needing to touch the lands for a cartridge to be accurate, etc.

As stated, the 25 grain Hornady HP will likely shoot well in your 10" twist barrel. Whether the 25 grain V-max will or will not stabilize is open to testing..... Its length is about maxed out for a 10" twist barrel, especially at or near sea level where you're shooting.

-BCB
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Old 06-23-2019, 03:30 PM
Daryl Daryl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oso Polaris View Post


The black line on each bullet was traced around neck of case at Max COAL (bullet touching the lands).



Max Coal
15.5gr Hornady NTX 2.073"
20gr Nosler Varmageddon 2.101"
20gr Nightmare Extreme 2.105"
20gr Hornady Vmax 2.165"
25gr Hornady Vmax 2.161"
The lines on the 20gr. bullets appears about identically to where I had to seat them in my first .17AB & they were still jumping .050". With 20gr. Vmaxs it's best accuracy ran under .2" at 100 meters, with most running sub 1/2". It also loved 25gr. Hornady HP's in it's 10" twist. It did not shoot well with 15gr. Bergers, but then I was driving those at 4,500fps.
If the bore is in line with the chamber, a bit of jump should not make trouble, indeed, even if out a bit, the jump allows the bullets to align with the bore before engraved. Deep seating is sometimes necessary to get poorly chambered guns shooting well. I had a friend with a .22-250 who experimented enough to find he needed the ogive of 50gr. bullets seated well below the case neck mouth. My wife shot her first 1/2" 100 yard group with that rifle.
Don't give up.
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Old 06-26-2019, 05:41 PM
moorepower moorepower is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kdog View Post
Oso,

You should have no problem shooting any 25 grain bullet in your 1/10 twist. The 25 gr Vmax should perform well - especially with the non boat tail/long bearing surface. I recommend that you work up loads for the 25 Vmax or the 25 Nagels that were suggested by Silver Fox, and see how they group.

Ken
If you read any of the bullet reviews many 10twist barrels seem to disagree. I am not saying don't try them, but Hornady says they need a 1-10 to work.
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Old 06-26-2019, 05:49 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moorepower View Post
If you read any of the bullet reviews many 10twist barrels seem to disagree. I am not saying don't try them, but Hornady says they need a 1-10 to work.
Have shot 17 cal, even 25 grain, in 1/10 twist, but a 1/9 does work better. Bill K
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  #10  
Old 06-29-2019, 02:32 PM
ackleyman ackleyman is offline
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Default Seating depth

in the custom 17 rem with Shilen 10T, 25g bergers and Rem's shot tiny, tiny groups.

17 Mach IV's, 25g bergers shot tiny groups also around 3850.

Reamers were ground with zero freebore and bullets always liked to just barely touch the lands for pencil eraser size groups.
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