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  #11  
Old 10-14-2020, 11:17 PM
dungheap dungheap is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 20VarTarg View Post
I am kind of a Model 38 nut. Currently own 4 Model 38's but have owned other ones as well. The early early Model 38's were chambered in 17CCM and 22CCM. They were actually repeaters. After that the Model 38's were single shot rifles. I own a 20VT, 17 HeBee, 17 Fireball(now a 17/23SMC), and a 218 Mashburn Bee. They also made Model 38's chambered 22 Hornet, 17 Ackley Hornet(owned one), 22 Squirrel, 17 Mach IV, 218 Bee, and I'm sure other wildcats based on the Bee and Hornet Case. To me there is nothing better then a Model 38 Classic. They are light, handle great, and shoot fantastic.
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.20 VarTarg, check PM's, please
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  #12  
Old 10-16-2020, 08:12 PM
20VarTarg 20VarTarg is offline
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Originally Posted by dungheap View Post
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.20 VarTarg, check PM's, please
dungheap, I responded to your PM.
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  #13  
Old 10-17-2020, 04:43 AM
Kiwishooter Kiwishooter is offline
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I did a web archive search and came up with this which was October 2014

https://web.archive.org/web/20141006...es/96-model-38

If I go much latter when I click on "our rifles" the model 38 is not listed like in Feb 2016
https://web.archive.org/web/20160204...com/our-rifles

Back in 2008 the list was longer and included the "Fireball" based cartridges
https://web.archive.org/web/20080723...rifles_new.php

The list of cartridges then were
Model 38
17 Squirrel
17 Ackley Hornet
17 He Bee
17 Fireball
20 VarTarg
221 Fireball
22 Hornet
22 K-Hornet
22 Squirrel
218 Bee
218 Mashburn Bee



Take a look at back in 2004
https://web.archive.org/web/20040211...m/actions.html

And in November 1999
https://web.archive.org/web/19991110...com/custom.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/19991021...rfirearms.com/

Interesting reading I see the model 52 was introduced in the latter part of 2007 and the Jackson Varminter was introduced in early 2008.

Wonder what year my Jackson Varminter in 17 HeBee is

Who bought a 25th anniversary model back in 2015
https://web.archive.org/web/20150206...ews-and-events


If anyone wants a electronic copy of the 2008 catalogue send me an email ian6ppc at gmail com ………...Kiwi

Last edited by Kiwishooter; 10-17-2020 at 04:54 AM.
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  #14  
Old 10-18-2020, 02:36 PM
218bee 218bee is offline
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Thanks Kiwishooter. That is exactly the kind of info I wanted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiwishooter View Post
I did a web archive search and came up with this which was October 2014

https://web.archive.org/web/20141006...es/96-model-38

If I go much latter when I click on "our rifles" the model 38 is not listed like in Feb 2016
https://web.archive.org/web/20160204...com/our-rifles

Back in 2008 the list was longer and included the "Fireball" based cartridges
https://web.archive.org/web/20080723...rifles_new.php

The list of cartridges then were
Model 38
17 Squirrel
17 Ackley Hornet
17 He Bee
17 Fireball
20 VarTarg
221 Fireball
22 Hornet
22 K-Hornet
22 Squirrel
218 Bee
218 Mashburn Bee



Take a look at back in 2004
https://web.archive.org/web/20040211...m/actions.html

And in November 1999
https://web.archive.org/web/19991110...com/custom.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/19991021...rfirearms.com/

Interesting reading I see the model 52 was introduced in the latter part of 2007 and the Jackson Varminter was introduced in early 2008.

Wonder what year my Jackson Varminter in 17 HeBee is

Who bought a 25th anniversary model back in 2015
https://web.archive.org/web/20150206...ews-and-events


If anyone wants a electronic copy of the 2008 catalogue send me an email ian6ppc at gmail com ………...Kiwi
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  #15  
Old 10-18-2020, 05:42 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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I currently only have one model 38 rifle left. Its a MT Varminter in 218 Mashburn Bee.

I have owned a couple of others over the years, but in single shot Cooper rifles I prefer the slightly larger but considerably stronger Model 21 single shot actions. It still makes for a very petite and small single shot rifle compared to what is available other places.

Back in the day, Dan Cooper had reservations about the strength of the Model 38 action and what people were trying to do with them in terms of cartridge conversions. Many people wanted to try to cram a relatively larger/higher pressure small caliber cartridge into the extremely small action designed for much lesser cartridges. Dan wasn't very politically astute possibly, , but the man was a pretty good firearms designer, and he knew the limits of what he had his name on.

Here's a nice one from some very good folks if anyone is interested.......

https://www.gunsinternational.com/gu...n_id=101531549

And another one......... Interesting comment about its birth.

https://www.rockislandauction.com/de...t-action-rifle

-BCB
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Last edited by Bayou City Boy; 10-18-2020 at 07:16 PM. Reason: link added....and grammar/wording.........
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  #16  
Old 10-18-2020, 06:06 PM
TinMan TinMan is offline
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BCB, if I remember right, at one time Cooper also recalled the Model 38 to have their bolts reworked/replaced with stronger bolt lugs, if so desired.
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  #17  
Old 10-18-2020, 07:23 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TinMan View Post
BCB, if I remember right, at one time Cooper also recalled the Model 38 to have their bolts reworked/replaced with stronger bolt lugs, if so desired.
They did.... I don't remember the specifics of the issue, but IIRC, it was a last ditch attempt to keep those folks who were playing with the Model 38 action intact while they massaged their hopes of making a Model 38 into a magnum rifle of some sort.......

It was designed originally for Hornet-sized cartridge cases but some of the resulting offspring were a bit oversized.

-BCB
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I miss mean Tweets, competence, and $1.79 per gallon gasoline.

Yo no creo en santos que orinan.

Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and just get used to the idea.

Going keyboard postal over something that you read on the internet is like seeing a pile of dog crap on the sidewalk and choosing to step in it rather than stepping around it.

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  #18  
Old 10-18-2020, 10:34 PM
218bee 218bee is offline
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TinMan and Bayou City Boy,

Which cartridges were people trying to use in the 38 in which it would not handle?
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  #19  
Old 10-18-2020, 11:07 PM
JohnHenry JohnHenry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 218bee View Post
TinMan and Bayou City Boy,

Which cartridges were people trying to use in the 38 in which it would not handle?
The 221FB and those cartridges whose parent case is the 221FB. If my memory is correct, Cooper enlarged the Model 38 bolt lugs to the size of the Model 21 lugs when they started chambering the Model 38 for these higher pressure cartridges.
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  #20  
Old 10-19-2020, 12:24 AM
218bee 218bee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnHenry View Post
The 221FB and those cartridges whose parent case is the 221FB. If my memory is correct, Cooper enlarged the Model 38 bolt lugs to the size of the Model 21 lugs when they started chambering the Model 38 for these higher pressure cartridges.
Hey JohnHenry,

I have heard this mentioned many times on this website. When I bought my Model 38 in 20 VT I called Cooper to inquire about it. I was talking with one of their gunsmiths and asked him if they stopped producing it in the Fireball cartridges because the action could not handle it. He said, "No" it had to do with the fact that they did not sell many of them and those cartridges could easily be chambered in the Model 21. According to him it did not make sense to carry an extra action for it. He said there were about 30 rifles chambered in the Model 38 with the Fireball class of cartridges. He recommended I hold onto it. I would be interested to see where this rumor started.
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