17 squrriel keyhole

[Jingle]

Originally Posted by Randy Robinett

Think comparative LENGTH and specific gravity. RG

Yep, length is the culprit. Well that is what I have found in my case. As I have stated in other threads- My 22-250 (1:14) will keyhole using 55gr vmax but any other 55gr bullet shoots fine as they are all shorter than the vmax. In my 17 HH (1:9) using 25gr vmax keyhole at reduced speeds but are stable at common 17hh velocities.

shorter flat base bullets seem to work.

[farmer44]

Thanks much for the reply tested again today just came back from range with different powder and a good scrubbing but still not good.

[Harmon]

What gun manufactor? Or is it custom built?

[17tbs]

What is the actual twist?

[farmer44]

Bought it as a custom build on a Ruger #1 action. No idea who the barrel manufacture was but just found out today that it has a 1:12 twist and from what I am hearing that is the problem. So I guess I will perhaps re chamber it to a cartridge that will work with that twist. Any Ideas are welcomed.

[17tbs]

17gr XTP 20gr HMR Gamepoint at 0.435"

Stability
Input Data
Caliber: 0.172 in Bullet Weight: 20.0 gr
Bullet Length: 0.435 in Plastic Tip Length: 0.000 in
Muzzle Velocity: 2500.0 ft/s Barrel Twist: 12.0 in
Temperature: 59.0 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Output Data Stability: 1.247 -<<<<<===《《《 THIS WORKS

If you get these, they will stabilize in a 1 in 12" twist, so should the 25gr Remington PLHP (old style)

This guy might know where to get some, Heck Phillips. https://www.heckphillips.com/heck-phillips/

Tillyman on here has sectioned bullets beautifully,

Your other option is to get some of these HP 17gr, on the VMAX just pull the vmax tip or clip it off flat with a razor.



The 25gr HP from Hornady is .567" and is going to not work well.

Stability Input Data
Caliber: 0.172 in Bullet Weight: 25.0 gr
Bullet Length: 0.567" Plastic Tip Length: 0.000 "
Muzzle Velocity: 2500.0 ft/s Barrel Twist: 12.0 "
Temperature: 59.0 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Output Data
Stability: 0.745 ( this is insufficient )
21-Dec-16 22:08, JBM/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

[Hog Patrol]

17tbs, Great post. The 20XTPs will stabilize at around 100 fps faster than they do in a .17HMR.
Having said that, from this chair, it doesn't make any sense to go to all the work of making the squirrel case for a gain that small. Then again, let's say you push them faster, the question is will the jackets stay in one piece by the time they get to the target. Those bullets were designed for the HMR and the jackets aren't as thick as the ones made for centerfire calibers. My advice to the OP is a different barrel so any .17 bullet will be stabilized. Everyone else's mileage may vary.

[17tbs]

HP,

Yep, that would be my suggestion as well.

Incidentally, the .172 20gr XTP is an excellent bullet and it can be launched between 2800fps to 3000+ fps from the .17 Squirrel sized case with a fair degree of stability and perhaps even slower as seen below while maintaining stabilization from that 1 in 12" twist.

Stability Input Data
Caliber: 0.172 in Bullet Weight: 20.0 gr
Bullet Length: 0.435 in Plastic Tip Length: 0.000 in
Muzzle Velocity: 2000.0 ft/s Barrel Twist: 12.0 in
Temperature: 59.0 °F Pressure: 29.92 in Hg
Output Data Stability: 1.158
22-Dec-16 06:34, JBM/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

I trust that JBM calculator because I have a bunch of bullets that someone said were probably unsuitable and should not stabilize in my 17VHA such as the 30gr Kindler BTHP inot the midle oF the image below. It does beautifully out to about 400 yds even though from a 1 in 9" twist it is only given about a 1.0 stabilization when I shoot it above 1600' in altitude where I hunt. According to QuickLoad, it gets launched from a compressed charge of 9.7gr H4198 going about 2750 fps in my 18.75" barrel, actual results with a Chrony gave 2950 fps in southern New Mexico. That was where I was able to shoot at altitudes of 4500 feet to 7600feet.

None of the three bullets in the photo below are supposed to be stable. In practice they shoot fairly well to very well and seem to ignore the warnings I heard from others. The JBM calculator said they were okay, so I tried them.





Lets say the 1 in 12" twist has a nice bore, then it might be perfect, but just for 2 or three of the short stubby bullets, if he can not get these, then he should be looking at a rebarrel to a 1 in 9" twist.

For my choice, with a Ruger#1 action, I would keep the current 17 Squirrel barrel, by going to a gunsmith have him convert it to a switch barrel for the .172 Hornady Hornet and keep the .172Squirrel after ordering a 1 in 9 from a great shop like, a Lilja, Lothar, PacNor, etc, and get it chambered at their shop for something fast, like a 17Rem, 17FB, or similar.

He has a 17 Squirrel, with the loading equipment brass and all the other things that go with it like the desire to have a 17 Squirrel. The only thing stopping him is the availability of a suitable bullet.

If he can get these: HMR 17gr HP, 20gr Gamepoint XTP, or the OLD STYLE 25gr Remington PLHP, then he gets to keep his nice custom .172 Squirrel fed and in working order.

If he can get his hands on those at all, I recommend he stock up in suitable quantities, such as 10 to 20 thousand each, unless it is not possible. (I know it is possible because I have a bunch of the 20gr XTP for my own small capacity 17VHA case, it is one of my preferred bullets because it doesn't vaporize or shred a game animal like the VMAX bullets do. Contact Heck Phillips, he will know where some are.

The 17 Squirrel Ruger#1 was bought with a 17 Squirrel chamber and with a reason, it consumes nearly "nuthin" for powder, and it can be loaded from 3000 fps using 17gr HP down to subsonic levels if he can get his hands on the .172" 20gr XTP Gamepoint that has a 0.435" length. That bullet is designed for the 17HMR and it works perfectly at the velocities of the 17 Squirrel. The 17gr HP above is probably a great bullet to shoot as well.

What I am hinting at is that though a new barrel may sound like a better idea, some of the best bullets available are perfectly suited for the 17 Squirrel with a slow twist. So it may be costlier in the long run to rechamber to some other cartridge, or even to rebarrel.

If you have any question about the efficacy of the little 20gr XTP Gamepoint, you should read the article in the link below. Remember, this article is covering the same bullets as I mentioned above and the .172Squirrel can add another 500fps even out of a carbine barrel.

The case capacity of the 17HMR is around 9.5gr H2O, but is limited to around 24k PSI.

If you keep the 17 Squirrel loads down to about 38k PSI the brass should last for ever with proper care.

My 17VHA 40° brass is doing fine after three reloads in a minimum spec chamber. One piece of brass is on something like 40 plus reloads. I use it and a few others for reloads of reduced velocity from 1005fps with no resizing and 17gr Vmax to 33.4 gr NOE cast roundnosed bullets to 2600fps using the stubby HMR 20gr Gamepoint XTP.

http://www.risingsunoutdoors.com/New...weet17/HMR.htm

[reed1911]

We are working on making some short and light .17's I hope to have them ready by 1st Qtr 2017.

[17tbs]

How about some short and heavy bullets? Something like the .172" 20gr gamepoint?

Dang Ron, you are up early.