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Old 07-13-2019, 03:10 PM
410gauge 410gauge is offline
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Default Annealing 17 Ackley Hornet brass.

Guys, would appreciate any comments on annealing of 17 AH brass. I'm in the process of building several hundred new cases (WW) and was wanting some of you 17 AH shooters opinions. I've seen people comment, build the cases...then anneal before fire forming. I've seen fire form new brass...then anneal, and I've seen build the cases fire form, and don't anneal until shooting them for a while. I know there are some very experienced 17AH shooters on the forum, and any comments would be appreciated. Thanks, 410gauge
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Old 07-13-2019, 04:34 PM
Lunde Sr Lunde Sr is offline
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I don't anneal until I've fired the brass 3 times (including fire-forming. That's just me, but it seems to work.
V
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Old 07-13-2019, 05:25 PM
Dean2 Dean2 is offline
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Really depends on the case. Privi is thick and hard but makes excellent cases. You need to anneal before firing or you will get a lot of shoulder splits. Winchester some work okay to anneal after fire forming some or you get splits, just depends on how hard the brass in that batch is. Win brass is thinner and usually softer than Privi. Rem brass you can usually anneal after 2 or 3 firings, it is the thinnest and softest of the common brass used.
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Old 07-13-2019, 05:27 PM
dungheap dungheap is offline
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Default .17 AH Annealing

Over the years I formed lots of .17 AH brass, about equal amounts of R-P and WW, for three different rifles, and never annealed any of it. Once fireformed, I neck size the cases only enough to hold the bullet and seldom see case splits. However, most recently, I purchased 200 new WW Hornet cases and set up 50 for .17 AH fireforming. Lost around 10 when fireforming, and probably another five on the next (fireformed) firing. Same procedure used, same loads -- don't know what's causing this, and didn't attempt to work the remaining 150 yet. Not at all sure what to recommend, just relating my own experience.
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Old 07-13-2019, 05:39 PM
Dean2 Dean2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dungheap View Post
Over the years I formed lots of .17 AH brass, about equal amounts of R-P and WW, for three different rifles, and never annealed any of it. Once fireformed, I neck size the cases only enough to hold the bullet and seldom see case splits. However, most recently, I purchased 200 new WW Hornet cases and set up 50 for .17 AH fireforming. Lost around 10 when fireforming, and probably another five on the next (fireformed) firing. Same procedure used, same loads -- don't know what's causing this, and didn't attempt to work the remaining 150 yet. Not at all sure what to recommend, just relating my own experience.
My bet is the newer brass is thicker or harder, maybe both. If you have a hardness tester for lead you can check the old and new, or use a pocket knife and see how hard it is to scratch both. You will likely feel a difference in hardness. Thickness is easy to measure, weigh both sets of cases, use a caliper to measure neck thickness.
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Old 07-13-2019, 06:02 PM
long shot long shot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean2 View Post
Really depends on the case. Privi is thick and hard but makes excellent cases. You need to anneal before firing or you will get a lot of shoulder splits. Winchester some work okay to anneal after fire forming some or you get splits, just depends on how hard the brass in that batch is. Win brass is thinner and usually softer than Privi. Rem brass you can usually anneal after 2 or 3 firings, it is the thinnest and softest of the common brass used.
Dean is 100% correct with the privy brass. It must be annealed before firing or you will have close to 100% shoulder splits. I've tried the new Winchester brass and it is too soft to form. I'm going to have to fire it a couple times as 22 hornet and then try forming it. You WILL have to experiment as there are no set standards between manufacturers as far as hardness. It's always a learning experience. One thing you should not have to do is anneal before forming. The rest is trial by error. Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes not....

Aaron
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Old 07-13-2019, 07:20 PM
410gauge 410gauge is offline
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Guys, I made (200) pcs. (old WW 22 Hornet brass) last winter and fire formed them out in the squirrel fields this spring with a fairly stiff load. Didn't split a neck. I plan on staying with WW brass although on some other rds forming lately I haven't been to impressed with the brass. Some of it comes out the new package messed up. Think I'll load up 25 rds or so of the new WW brass with-out annealing and see how it looks after firing. As far as the newer WW Hornet brass I just got, it formed really nice. I got a new Redding #1 form die from one of the members, and it worked really slick. Didn't lose a case. Thanks for all the responses. 410gauge
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Old 07-14-2019, 12:47 AM
20VarTarg 20VarTarg is offline
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I'm relatively new to the 17 AH but I have had the opportunity to fireform about 150 pcs of brass. The brass I'm using is OLD Rem stuff. My buddy had purchased a really nice annealing setup so after forming all the brass I had him anneal it. Or wait, maybe he annealed it before I even formed it. Anyways it was annealed before fireforming. Out of 150+ pcs of brass I have lost 2 cases. Some of those cases now have 3 or maybe even 4 firings on them. I just shot 55 rounds today and did not split a single one. I think the life of the brass will be far greater if you do the annealing early on in the process. But like most folks have commented every kind of brass is unique. Maybe I just got really really lucky!!!
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Old 07-14-2019, 12:56 AM
SmokinJoe SmokinJoe is offline
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After my recent experience with some really light Rem/Hornady cases (think thin, they average just over 44 grains weight), I think I will anneal after setting up the false shoulder and see if that gets rid of the split neck & shoulder issues. From what I am reading, I don't have a big problem as I'm only losing 3-5% of my brass during FF, but I hate to lose any at all.
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Old 07-14-2019, 01:37 AM
JohnJ65 JohnJ65 is offline
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I'm new to 17AH and have been forming up Nosler brass lately.

The Nosler brass would split the shoulders on every case when I fire formed without annealing. Annealing before forming them would result in smashed shoulders.

I used the AZTEC function on my Amp annealer to find the proper setting and annealed after forming, they came out beautiful after fire forming.

So I guess Nosler brass is on par with Privi in being quite hard.

John.
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