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  #1  
Old 09-16-2019, 06:21 PM
Centerfire Centerfire is offline
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Default Has anybody used an Anschutz Hornet donor for 1/2" MOA results?

I've already got a beautiful 1976 Anschutz 1432D 22Hornet rifle I wouldn't mind using. It's got epoxy under the barrel that can be seen if you look really close. You can barely see it, but it lowers the value. (yes, I did stupid things when young) So, I might as well use this rifle for a donor, instead of the hassle of shipping it out for $900 on GunBroker.....IF it will work well for my project. As you know, this annie does NOT have a threaded barrel/ receiver. If I were to have a 20 cal pac-nor or Lilja barrel made, do you think Bob Green or somebody else good could smith it? (yes, I'd ask him. But first want to feel assured this rifle is a good idea) As already mentioned on another thread I want 1/2" MOA or the project will be a $$ waste.

Sure, I can sell my annie on GB for $900, and then hunt down and buy a CZ for the same cost, but that's a heck of a lot of horse trading to get the same results if the annie will work as well. Is the annie rear bolt lock up and snap-on barrel that bad? (btw; Howa is out, as I don't want to jack making a custom stock)

ALSO; I'm still wondering if the Hornet brass is so bad that I should go with a 20 Garin die-set using using 30carbine brass. But I'm leary about that Garin guy who can seldom be reached or his products difficult to order from him! LOL)

Last edited by Centerfire; 09-16-2019 at 07:57 PM.
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  #2  
Old 09-16-2019, 07:30 PM
Teddy Bear Rat Teddy Bear Rat is offline
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Are you thinking of a .20 Ackley Hornet, or what? That would impact my answer.

I would hardly call the Anschutz barrel attachment "snap-on." It is pressed and pinned into place, and, as one who has removed his share of them, believe me, it is a stout connection. Still, for most rimfire projects, many don't even bother with the pins, electing to simply glue the barrel in place using epoxy resin adhesives (I always use the pins myself, BTW). Having said that, those were for rimfire applications, and, for a Hornet, I would either make certain the pins are installed properly, or just have your gunsmith thread the receiver ring and be done with it.

On the suitability of the rear-lugged action, remember, that same action has been used for the .222 Remington, with its accompanying pressures, as well (I've owned two), although with a disclaimer about no hand loads. Still, as long as one does not try to turn his .22 Hornet (or whatever you are planning) Anschutz 54 into a .204 Ruger, I would have no qualms regarding its strength or durability. On accuracy, with fast locktime and the exceedingly fine triggers available, there's no reason to believe 1/2 MOA is not possible...some of my factory .22 Hornet 54s already achieved that level of precision.

I know we all want that perfectly sized bolt action .22 Hornet action. Alas, the now-discontinued Cooper M-38 was about the only option, and it was a single shot. The Brno 465 would be right up there, as well, but it has OAL limitations making it less-than-ideal for more modern bullets...same with your Anschutz, however. I just bought an older ULA in .22 Hornet. It's overly large for the Hornet and is also a single shot, but its m700-style triggers make it as close to ideal as I have found.

I recommend full speed ahead...for a Hornet wildcat

TBR
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  #3  
Old 09-16-2019, 08:22 PM
TinMan TinMan is offline
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Not exactly the answer for your question, but some input. Regarding the rear lug lock-up, I have a Kimber M82 in 22 Hornet, and it definitely is a <0.5 MOA rifle. It is a rimfire based rifle, but I can't remember if the barrel is threaded or pinned, without digging it out and looking closely. Its best groups with 40gr NBT or Vmax are 0.3-0.4 MOA.

I think there shouldn't be an issue for the 1432D, with the barrels and smiths you suggested. Use good brass, fire form to your chamber and then neck size only, and you should be happy with the result.

Last edited by TinMan; 09-16-2019 at 08:25 PM.
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  #4  
Old 09-16-2019, 08:40 PM
Centerfire Centerfire is offline
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I'm open to any Hornet sized round that will work in a repeater. I'm thinking of a 20 KHornet, Ackley, or whatever gets rid of the slender design of the original 22H case in which I can add a shoulder to it. HOWEVER, I have been reading way too many accounts here of the availability of good Hornet brass being really poor. I can anneal cases, weigh them, check concentricity, etc, but we know that consistency is essential or it makes accuracy difficult.(...never mind if we must throw half of it out from the get go, and the other half constantly spits and/or buckles when forming & sizing it.) So this is why I'm open to using a stronger brass case like the 30m1 carbine case...or any other case you guys might use to make into a Hornet-like-round that will work in my annie. (or a CZ)

Possible O.A.L problems with the cartridge not fitting into the magazine shouldn't be a major concern as I can have PT&G make the reamer however necessary to control freebore. I intend to hand feed the cartridges singly when I'm benching. (but I insist on it being a repeater rifle)

Thank you for providing the proper barrel terminology, "pinned & pressed". I couldn't recall the term, and figured somebody would know what I meant when I said "snap-on". LOL. When I gather all my info with your help, and sort things out to figure out exactly what my plan is, I can then ask BobGreen or others if they work with annie pinned barrels. I got nothing against a Bruno, ( I have one in a Hornet) but I have the annie ready for the project....if it's suitable. The only bad thing is that there isn't much wood left to accommodate a beefier barrel in that Euro thin schnabel wood stock if I decided I wanted one. The trigger on it is from the 1970's and is is able to be adjusted down light.

Last edited by Centerfire; 09-16-2019 at 08:49 PM.
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  #5  
Old 09-16-2019, 09:34 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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Centerfire: I will get stomped on all over for this. Forget all the naysayers on the Hornet brass. Get some Hornady 17 Hornet brass neck it up to the 20 caliber you want and go have fun shooting. I have used 17 Hornet brass, both their virgin and loaded for a year now and have had no issues with it.
I have numerous reloads on the first 100 and they are still going. I don't really load to top notch max and that may make the difference.
I load for accuracy first and foremost. I too have been thinking of adding a 20 Hornet to the fold, as I like the 20 calibers, having them in 20SCC, 20-223ai and 204 ruger. A neat 20 hornet would fit in just fine. Bill K
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  #6  
Old 09-16-2019, 10:05 PM
Teddy Bear Rat Teddy Bear Rat is offline
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I gotta agree with this. My last concern would be Hornet brass quality, especially since we've all agreed to keep the loads mild, right ? I'm not sure I follow your plan to load each round singly while insisting it be a repeater. The chamber reamer is not the problem; the magazine length with the long, streamlined bullets is, whether .22 or .20. A shortened Hornet would get you there, however.

Going with the .30 Carbine will create bolt face, extractor, and magazine issues on the Anschutz. If you want something bigger than the .20 K-Hornet, I would be more inclined to find a .222 Remington on the Anschutz 54 action, as discussed, and look at a .20 VT. The bolt face, extractors, and magazine will likely work as is, but YOU BETTER KEEP THE PRESSURES DOWN . The .222 Anschutz rifles seem to be the ugly step-sister to even the Hornet rifles, so they can often be had quite reasonably, even with the coveted DST (coveted by me, anyway):
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/832576544

TBR

P.S. The Kimber 82 barrels were threaded, BTW, but Kimber went with a completely different action with front locking lugs on anything bigger than the .22 Hornet, while Anschutz, in fact, made .222s on that 54 action. I've never heard of a Walther centerfire either, for anything but the Hornet using its usual rear-locking KK action.

Last edited by Teddy Bear Rat; 09-16-2019 at 10:13 PM.
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  #7  
Old 09-16-2019, 10:11 PM
SmokinJoe SmokinJoe is offline
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For the Anschutz, I would use Evelio MacDonald in Houston (again). He re- K'd a 1730 that I tried by hand but got chatter that I couldn't fix. He did a very nice job, turned it around fairly quickly and his charges were very reasonable. That rifle shoots well under .5 and would do even better with a better trigger.
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  #8  
Old 09-16-2019, 11:05 PM
rick w. rick w. is offline
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Lot to think about on this project, somethings that usually do not bother me; but the donor rifle is a special one to most folks. A fine sporting rifle, designed as one, shoots better than most, and has style. Not built today.

As I recall there is a short one page article on a fellow in SCN towards the back of an issue(which one?) that shows his pride and joy, tis an early rifle like yours that he converted to 17 A.H. He did not change the looks.............looked grand and he said it worked.

What you are starting with is quite nice. Do you want to change it etc and all of those soul searching questions. Comments from the peanut gallery mainly become mute points with me, but I am not you and vicey versa.

I would not change the design of the rifle, unless only using the action. If only replacing the barrel I would go to a blank maker of some repute (Lilja) and ask him to make me an identical barrel, either would be in the blank cost or surely no more than +50. Plus fifty in true love is just that; not much.

If redone with same(not close, same) contourthe stock remains intact. Could always be redone back to stock if you ever sell(fat chance I am sure). Especially true if using factory breeching system, ie switch barrel of a type.

I would suggest a miimum of the factory breeching system, slip fit plus pins. I would have to think about the threaded shank some though.........pluses and cons there. Knocking out the barrel after pin(s) removal is a treat with a big hammer and soft biggie mandrel. I am not tight with the outside/inside dimensions in that breeching/shanking area, so short on comment in threading aspects.

Could choose stainless or CM blank, stainless is simplistic while almost every joe blow rust blues on the back porch, especially with the newer fluids(friendly to oils)

As far as the rear locking lugs relative strengths or not, is personal decision between you and your boy if hired done. I would get a fellow with some rep, not starting with a chinese airgun; things get ruined on occasion.

Brass comes and goes. when it comes..........buy some.



I appreciate you sharing an old dream, the guy on the rear pages of SCM with his Anschutz 54 in 17 A.H., a woodchuck rifle. I hope to have one myself someday....17 Khornet of course as I gots the die support.

Last edited by rick w.; 09-16-2019 at 11:12 PM.
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  #9  
Old 09-17-2019, 06:47 PM
Dean2 Dean2 is offline
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Personally, I have a lot of trouble using an Anschutz for a donor action, but maybe that is just me. It seems a shame to change a great rifle that is no longer made. Personally I would keep the Anschutz go get a Browning Micro in 22 H or a CZ and make that into whatever you want. Better designed action and bolt, especially for higher pressure loads, triggers can be made great, and action is long enough for modern Vmax style bullets, though the mag on the CZ is still limited to about 1.75.

You CAN make one out of the Annie but why use an action that really isn't up to high pressure loads like the 17 HH and others. Let us know what you decide. All the best.
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  #10  
Old 09-17-2019, 08:00 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean2 View Post
Personally, I have a lot of trouble using an Anschutz for a donor action, but maybe that is just me. It seems a shame to change a great rifle that is no longer made. Personally I would keep the Anschutz go get a Browning Micro in 22 H or a CZ and make that into whatever you want. Better designed action and bolt, especially for higher pressure loads, triggers can be made great, and action is long enough for modern Vmax style bullets, though the mag on the CZ is still limited to about 1.75.

You CAN make one out of the Annie but why use an action that really isn't up to high pressure loads like the 17 HH and others. Let us know what you decide. All the best.

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