I STOPPED buying BERGER stuff

[UTcaller]

Now I need to start stockpiling some Berger 22 caliber 60 Varmint HP’s for my .22-250 Ackley Improved. Not to mention some 35 grain Varmint HP’s for my .204 Ruger. Might even buy a bunch of the 22 caliber 55 grain Target HP’s just to be safe......

[moorepower]

Originally Posted by Gary in Illinois

I am amazed at the failure of people to understand how business works! An investor buys stock in a business looking to maximize the value of that investment. This, quite simply, is the company’s goal. If they can make all of their customers happy in accomplishing their goal, everyone is happy. If production capacity must be diverted from low volume products to higher volume products to accomplish their charter then that is what their owners expect and demand. Small caliber shooters are very small fish in a very large pond. It seems very simple and straightforward...

I really miss several of the bullets Berger used to make but I am not personally offended by rational business decisions. We have people criticizing Ford and GM for “abandoning” the sedan market but can we really expect the auto makers to continue production of vehicles that have become very slow selling.

Two things I would like Berger to do is to announce products that they plan to discontinue several months in advance to allow shooters the opportunity to stockpile their chosen bullets. The second is for Berger to make limited runs of some of these bullets as they have the opportunity to work them into production - the way some brass producers do with low volume cartridge brass.

I sold a business that I owned for 15 years, and unless you have walked in the shoes of a business it's really hard to understand the whys. Unless you are trying to loose money like our respective governments you simply can't afford to sell very low volume items when you can't keep up with more popular items. We as a group beg and beg an beg for a product, and then only a handful of us actually buy the product. It would be nice for the companies to announce they were going to drop a line, so users could stock up on them, but it is what it is. I don't know what the percentage of the marketplace is for .17 and .20's but I would bet there are more than 1000 .224 bullets sold for one each of .17 and .20. When you consider what is currently being produced if I am not mistaken the .17 HH and the .204 Ruger are the only factory caliber mass produced rifles being made today.

[ramos]

Originally Posted by Gary in Illinois

I am amazed at the failure of people to understand how business works! An investor buys stock in a business looking to maximize the value of that investment. This, quite simply, is the company’s goal. If they can make all of their customers happy in accomplishing their goal, everyone is happy. If production capacity must be diverted from low volume products to higher volume products to accomplish their charter then that is what their owners expect and demand. Small caliber shooters are very small fish in a very large pond. It seems very simple and straightforward...

I really miss several of the bullets Berger used to make but I am not personally offended by rational business decisions. We have people criticizing Ford and GM for “abandoning” the sedan market but can we really expect the auto makers to continue production of vehicles that have become very slow selling.

Two things I would like Berger to do is to announce products that they plan to discontinue several months in advance to allow shooters the opportunity to stockpile their chosen bullets. The second is for Berger to make limited runs of some of these bullets as they have the opportunity to work them into production - the way some brass producers do with low volume cartridge brass.

That right there is as near a perfect post on this situation as a guy is going to see. Anyone who takes offense or feels their integrity being called into question needs to take a deep breath and read it again. There is nothing personal in the post and there is nothing personal in most sound business decisions. The only reason for a business to continue offering an under performing item (from a ledger standpoint) is if it leads to increased profits elsewhere in the line up.

There is NOTHING personal in Gary's post, nor is there anything personal in mine. There's also nothing personal in the decision made by Berger. Does it have a personal impact on certain customers? Heck yeah. While unfortunate, that is a whole 'nother thing.

[Bayou City Boy]

Originally Posted by ramos

That right there is as near a perfect post on this situation as a guy is going to see. Anyone who takes offense or feels their integrity being called into question needs to take a deep breath and read it again. There is nothing personal in the post and there is nothing personal in most sound business decisions. The only reason for a business to continue offering an under performing item (from a ledger standpoint) is if it leads to increased profits elsewhere in the line up.

There is NOTHING personal in Gary's post, nor is there anything personal in mine. There's also nothing personal in the decision made by Berger. Does it have a personal impact on certain customers? Heck yeah. While unfortunate, that is a whole 'nother thing.

Most excellent and good post, Jon........


-BCB

[flyrod]

Originally Posted by Gary in Illinois

I am amazed at the failure of people to understand how business works! An investor buys stock in a business looking to maximize the value of that investment.

Yes that completely makes sense, and I can understand how and why it happens. I am still a bit disappointed when I see things like this however. Same thing with manufacturing jobs going overseas. I guess it's the difference between 'making a living' and 'making a killing.' My grandfather was a farmer and he made deals that were mutually beneficial. He was both successful and well respected in the community. He was not much for charity, but he didn't try to take every advantage either. Now the mega landowner farming empires play to win, and the people on the land are in every respect like serfs of old. This is business, but still sad to see.

If someone starts a business, often times they don't think to themselves, 'How can a get rich?' But they think, 'What do I enjoy doing, or what am I good at?' Personally, I see the money side as a measure of whether I can continue doing this thing that I enjoy. This is why I stated that it seems berger has gone from making bullets, to making money. I think before their passion was in their product. Now I think it's in their profits. If I could buy the same quality of product for less money, say from china, I would do that.

[Bayou City Boy]

Am I missing something here?

Originally Posted by flyrod

Yes that completely makes sense, and I can understand how and why it happens. I am still a bit disappointed when I see things like this however. Same thing with manufacturing jobs going overseas. I guess it's the difference between 'making a living' and 'making a killing.' My grandfather was a farmer and he made deals that were mutually beneficial. He was both successful and well respected in the community. He was not much for charity, but he didn't try to take every advantage either. Now the mega landowner farming empires play to win, and the people on the land are in every respect like serfs of old. This is business, but still sad to see.

If someone starts a business, often times they don't think to themselves, 'How can a get rich?' But they think, 'What do I enjoy doing, or what am I good at?' Personally, I see the money side as a measure of whether I can continue doing this thing that I enjoy. This is why I stated that it seems berger has gone from making bullets, to making money. I think before their passion was in their product. Now I think it's in their profits. If I could buy the same quality of product for less money, say from china, I would do that.

-BCB

[flyrod]

Originally Posted by Bayou City Boy

Am I missing something here?

Perhaps I can be more clear. Given two products of equal quality and different prices: I would pay more to support a local family business who's mission is to produce the best possible bullet. I would not pay more to pad the bank accounts of an investment brand who's mission is to put a plus sign next to a symbol on a stock ticker in a global market.

The question of this thread is, which category is berger in these days?

[Bill K]

If you apply the thought that many are saying re: Berger dropping a certain bullet, that they liked and therefore not buying from them any longer, would that same logic now apply, if in fact Cooper is dropping the one model (word is the model 38) rifle line ?

There is also some talk, could be just rumor, that some came back from the Shot show with the thought Cooper might even be stopping all production. I guess time will tell. Bill K

[Bayou City Boy]

Originally Posted by flyrod

Perhaps I can be more clear. Given two products of equal quality and different prices: I would pay more to support a local family business who's mission is to produce the best possible bullet. I would not pay more to pad the bank accounts of an investment brand who's mission is to put a plus sign next to a symbol on a stock ticker in a global market.

The question of this thread is, which category is berger in these days?

Oh..................OK..........

-BCB

[Hog Patrol]

I get a chuckle at these threads when I think of the African country Zimbabwe where there are no reloading components available and one round for a common hunting rifle is $20.00, U.S. Better make each one count!