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  #11  
Old 03-10-2019, 11:30 PM
B23 B23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill K View Post
I think Rick does about like me. I have a load worked up that is my main one for shooting in the fields and on critters.
I just reduce it slightly and often use the same load to fire form new brass, when I need it. As I said it is often just as accurate as the final load.
My loads run in the area of 20 grain plus or minus with a 32 grain bullet. But that is my gun. you need to work up to a safe load in YOUR rifle.
Normally I can take a new 221 fireball case, run it into my FL 20VT or Scc die and load and make the final fire form on that case with the first firing.
Make sense ? Bill K
Having multiple different rifles with "improved" cases I'm pretty familiar with the process and the VARTARG is really no different, even though it's such a slight change from the parent case, than any other improved cartridge. You have a fireforming load and a formed case load. Those two loads are probably very similar because you aren't really changing much from the parent case, but you're still using two different loads.
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  #12  
Old 03-11-2019, 12:17 AM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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Over time, I've found that fire form loads often work great as a final load also. I used to back off a grain or so from the parent case maximum when fire forming brass, but I no longer do that for cases that are mostly formed.

As an example, the load that I use in both of my 20 Tac rifles is the exact same load that I use for fire forming new brass. And both new cartridges that need formed as well as previously formed cases in each rifle shoot to the exact same point of aim. This is just one example, but it works that way with most.

Another instance when I use full blown loads for forming is when I fire form AI cartridges. A cartridge example is the 257 Bob and the 257 AI.

Brass that has been annealed properly forms easily with very little or no extra pressure resulting. Many folks use a reduced load that doesn't fully form the brass to the rifle chamber, so in essence they end up fire forming twice, which to me is a total waste of barrel life and components. "Do it right the first time" as the saying goes.

JMO - BCB
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  #13  
Old 03-11-2019, 02:12 AM
Oso Polaris Oso Polaris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimreed1948 View Post
I think this is what a lot of shooters do and it fire forms the case to the chamber at the same time.

I wasn't sure if there was any benefit to fire forming with the COW method first.
Jim,

The case dimension changes between 221 Fireball and 20 Vartarg are very close. Hence, you don't see much feedback of members using the Cream of Wheat Method (or in my case Cornmeal) to fire form the case.

Comparatively, going from 223 to 223AI has significantly more changes to the case dimension (removing more taper over longer case length). Even with the greater case change, there is still no need to use the COW Method for forming 223AI. I choose to form brass this way in order to save barrel life... I was making +2000 cases.

Forgive the redundancy - I didn't see B23 and Bayou City Boy's posts on page 2...

Last edited by Oso Polaris; 03-11-2019 at 02:16 AM.
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  #14  
Old 03-11-2019, 02:21 AM
dungheap dungheap is offline
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Fireforming with COW or anything else is OK for cases that need a somewhat radical change, like the .17AH. I think the main concern with the .20 VT is getting the necks to the right dimension, and that can be done without fireforming, and what you really need to do with the necks (turn or inside neck ream) depends on the brass you're using and the individual rifle chamber.
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  #15  
Old 03-11-2019, 04:43 PM
ramos ramos is offline
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VT cases formed from .233/5.56 also give excellent accuracy while fire forming. I do back down one half grain.
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  #16  
Old 03-11-2019, 05:54 PM
GrocMax GrocMax is offline
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Tried fast powder+filler fireforming, too loud, messy, and time consuming for my varminting needs, although for competition needs it makes some sense.

I've always been able to find a fireform load with a cheap bullet that works well.
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  #17  
Old 03-11-2019, 10:57 PM
Ricco1949 Ricco1949 is offline
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Default I dont FF VT's

My reamer moves the shoulder/neck junction back .020 and the body taper/shoulder junction back .005 with only a .001 change in body taper.

I've never done the trig but I suspect that Kindler's changes alone probably result in the 30 degree shoulder with no additional FF necessary from a Fireball to further blow out the shoulder.

I've never considered Vartarg FF necessary....I just make sure I have headspace snug, similar to an Ackley, when setting back the case shoulder and run my standard load.

I should add that I make all my VT's from LC brass so the 30 degree shoulder is certainly fully formed in the process.
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