Possibly a new tiny action and...

[steve123]

Originally Posted by Oso Polaris

Steve,

The big hiccup is the action's footprint and its optionality to integrate/utilize other manufacturer's accessories, such as stocks, triggers, bottom metal, etc. Voodoo isn't cheap so if this is a one-off action that needs custom stock inletting that no other manufacturer produces then it is problematic The same goes for all of the other components needed to make a rifle.

We need more information about design, dimensions, compatibility, and price range. Without knowing more, if I was in market to build a custom and based on pricing of Voodoo's other offerings, I would make assumption that it will be expensive (+$1000) for this not-yet-but-maybe Voodoo action. I may as well just go by a Borden Rimrock or Deviant Ultralight.

I guess what I am saying in short is that the reason you aren't getting a big response is because we are still waiting to be shown or told enough details to start asking questions or to get excited about the product,

The little centerfire action should be just like his current V22 action in that it'l fit into any Rem M700 inlet, or clone inlet thereof, stock or chassis system, that takes AI DBM which is very common nowadays. Of course I'm not absolutely sure but this is the theme he seems to plan to stay with???

Same with the trigger, any M700 or clone action will fit.

I forgot to mention that for 2020 he'll be coming out with a 17hmr and 22 magnum sized action and mags as I described above to fit AI DBM.

BTW I found out about this in the rimfire forum at Sniper Hide.

And I found the news very exciting!!!

Does Borden or any other Co make a super short action?? I think even Bordens new action designed for 6mmBR, BRA, BRX, Dasher, etc, is a M7 sized action.

Sure I do understand though, it's only a thought at this moment.

[steve123]

Originally Posted by squirrel_slayer

The 22 Mamba a .223 variant case. 1.125" case length. 17.1gr H2O, Improved body, 30' shoulder, throating catered to VLD style bullets and 62k psi operating pressure.
40's at 3300+ from a 20.5" barrel, 53's just shy of 3000, can also seat 80+ for subsonic suppressed applications with proper barrel twist. Very mild report and versitle. 3.5gr of titegroup also does 2300 ft/sec with 40gr jhp(armscor) and 22lr quiet


L-R: 55gr seated 1.62" a 95gr smk seated long for giggles(throat wouldn't accept this but 1.75" yeah), and .223

That case looks great!

So .270" shorter than the Vartarg, I'm kind of sold on the 20 cal so that's the case length I'm comparing to.

[steve123]

Originally Posted by squirrel_slayer

From what I gathered their 22lr action is patterned off the 700 short action setup for AICS DBM. which = very popular and tons o aftermarket support.

Exactly, it's the easy button, and takes M700 aftermarket triggers too.

[steve123]

Just thought I'd share some things most shooters wouldn't be interested in (pertains to long range 22rf) but good for knowledge's sake anyway.

A guy with the handle of Justin Amateur, has a weird hobby, he posts 200 yard - 50 shot groups, of all kinds of 22 rimfire ammo.
The short of it "is" the cheap ammo has huge vertical, like over a foot sometimes, because the extreme spread can be more than 100 fps, and well the ammo too can have all kinds of bad QC issues as well, which destroys accuracy.
Even the best match grade 22rf ammo has tested to be in the 4" area of vertical.

The more powerful rimfires like 17hmr, 22mag, and 17wsm. Unfortunately match ammo doesn't exist for these and ES has been equally dismal like 22rf is. But at least the ballistics are better! Alas, the vertical, nor the accuracy, isn't anything like a centerfire is capable of.

Who cares you say, and rightfully so if you are shooting small game, like tree squirrels at 20 yards up in a tree, rabbits at 50Y, etc, with cheap ammo.
Or maybe you shoot 50M 22rf Benchrest and a 50/50 card is peaches with that $25 a box X-act ammo.

Turns out there are thousands of 22 rimfire shooters that shoot from 10Y on out to 600 yards. Some in matches designed around long range 22, and some just to say they did. I'm one of them!
As much as I love shooting long range 22, "farthest so far was 675Y with hits", I got frustrated with the poor vertical, mediocre ES, and massive wind drift of a .15BC 40gr bullet going 1100 fps from the muzzle.

Enter the tiny centerfire cartridge, for me a 20-221AI.
I have a full power load, 32's at 3735 fps and worked up a reduced load with 800X pistol powder, 32's at 2330 fps. I'm getting somewhere with this reduced load which you will see soon.

As many of us know, centerfires with good handloads can have extremely low ES and are capable of feats like ,0-ish" groups at 100Y, high .1's at 200Y, Bart shot a .282" at 600Y with his 6mmBRA, and another group was shot in the 1.1" range at 1000Y.

Plenty of knowledge here at Saubier about the 20 Vartarg right, so I won't talk much about it with the normal loads for it.
What I found out was that out to 400Y hitting the 1.5 moa sized steel provided little challenge in normal winds with my 3735 fps 20-221AI load so I found that a little boring.
But with a 22rf hitting that same steel was very hard if any wind was present, so I often felt like I was wasting my expensive 22rf ammo, even using my expensive rifle.

Now to my point, "Just right" for providing challenge was the reduced load for my 20-221AI that I mentioned earlier! Unlike the rimfires I get 8 fps SD, .1-.2" at 50Y, .3-.4" at 100Y, and often .5 moa vertical to 300Y. 400Y is stretching it but I can still hit our full sized turkey every time if the wind is down.

Other benefits I found with the reduced load.
Low pressure = Long brass life, long barrel life, long strings without the barrel getting hot, very low noise level, extremely low recoil and rifle upset, very low powder consumption, more???
Only one negative I've come across, and that's poor load density with 800x, case fill is 60%.

This is why I'm personally interested in Vudoo's new tiny centerfire action! I'd like to use a case that has even less capacity than 20 Vartarg so I can get my ES down to 6fps with a higher load density, like my 6mmBR has!

Odd I know but this is what I'm into!

[squirrel_slayer]

cool story steve. During the great component famine of 2008-2010 (Thanks O!) I shot alot of 22lr at extended distances. Someone on the Hide had made a comparison chart mirroring .308 win 175gr M118lr data to scale. Ie using X sized targets at X distance = same external ballistics and sight picture as a .308

Furthest I shot was 250 yds with a tuned Savage MKII bull, w/40 moa base (which still wasn't enough) Super sniper 10x, bedded ect. I would warm up at 100 and could keep 1/2-3/4" groups but boy did those groups open up exponentially from that distance on. 75yds on in it would shoot bug holes

I had a 5" swinger target that I used and at 250 yds that 2.5lb trigger felt like 50 lol I had the scope maxed out on elevation and past the mil dot's in the optic to the point I put a clay pigeon several ft above my target to use as an aiming point

But I tell you what when you connect it's a whole different high! Once you finally wrestle the trigger to get it to fire there is a good 2+ sec delay before you see the target swing and another 3+ sec before you hear the tink. it's almost comical.

And if it's windy forget it! drift is measured in FT at that distance.

Once my supply of wolf MT dried up and I couldn't get quality 22lr ammo I sold the rifle and while I do miss it. I'm just about back there with my CAT in terms of enjoyment.

A rifle with an appropriate action (ie. a real repeater) would be the cherry on top.

[Danny]

Originally Posted by steve123

If you haven't heard of Vudoo Gun Works/Mike Bush, you are in for a nice surprise!

This Co. is already known in the rimfire world for bringing out the high quality V22 custom bolt action repeater that works with their proprietary 10 shot rimfire magazines which fit in Accuracy International style detachable bottom metal/DBM. The same DBM's that takes the centerfire 5 and 10 round magazines.

Well guess what, Mike is strongly considering producing a very small/short bolt action repeater for small cartridge cases!!! Think smaller/shorter than Rem M7 and CZ 527, and also possibly developing a new tiny centerfire cartridge for it.

If interested in such a thing like I am, I suggest you call Mike or email him to show interest, and so he knows there is a market for cool little cartridges and appropriate sized actions to fit them.

Just google Vudoo Gun Works so you can get acquainted with his products and his contact info is there too.

And I am not in any way shape or form affiliated with him or his Co, as well as no intent to advertise either.

I think that the CZ 527 action is about as small as I would consider going, and is about perfect sized.

[RareBear]

The Howa mini action is the shortest I can think of, m16 style extractor and ejector.

[steve123]

Originally Posted by squirrel_slayer

cool story steve. During the great component famine of 2008-2010 (Thanks O!) I shot alot of 22lr at extended distances. Someone on the Hide had made a comparison chart mirroring .308 win 175gr M118lr data to scale. Ie using X sized targets at X distance = same external ballistics and sight picture as a .308

Furthest I shot was 250 yds with a tuned Savage MKII bull, w/40 moa base (which still wasn't enough) Super sniper 10x, bedded ect. I would warm up at 100 and could keep 1/2-3/4" groups but boy did those groups open up exponentially from that distance on. 75yds on in it would shoot bug holes

I had a 5" swinger target that I used and at 250 yds that 2.5lb trigger felt like 50 lol I had the scope maxed out on elevation and past the mil dot's in the optic to the point I put a clay pigeon several ft above my target to use as an aiming point

But I tell you what when you connect it's a whole different high! Once you finally wrestle the trigger to get it to fire there is a good 2+ sec delay before you see the target swing and another 3+ sec before you hear the tink. it's almost comical.

And if it's windy forget it! drift is measured in FT at that distance.

Once my supply of wolf MT dried up and I couldn't get quality 22lr ammo I sold the rifle and while I do miss it. I'm just about back there with my CAT in terms of enjoyment.

A rifle with an appropriate action (ie. a real repeater) would be the cherry on top.

Yep this stuff long range 22rf can be fun! Looks like you are well acquainted with it then.

I like trying different types of shooting and enjoy hitting steel at long range the most.

From air rifles out to a couple hundred yards, to ELR distances with big guns.

[steve123]

Originally Posted by Danny

I think that the CZ 527 action is about as small as I would consider going, and is about perfect sized.

The CZ527 is what I have a 20-221AI in. I love the platform but I had to modify the 5 round magazine to get it to feed perfectly. Have a M700 in it too, doesn't even feed well with a single shot follower, toooo short of case and no coned bolt...

The action was after all designed for the 223 family of cases to begin with.

17HH is kinda shoehorned into it and there has been posts of people complaining of unreliable feeding. I would prefer to not have to mess stuff like this personally even though I'm pretty good at it.

If you have no interest in a smaller actioned repeater then that is fine but were talking here about a much higher quality action for littler cartridges using 10 round mags.

I mean wouldn't it be cool to have 17wsm ballistics while having 1/4" groups at 100Y and sub 1/2 moa out to 400-ish. Not to mention all the other benefits... With a 10 shot repeater!

Think about this, how many of us buy X stock rifle and put $2-3 thousand into it customizing it with high quality components. Well the Vudoo is basically a turn key "semi custom" system from the start.

I've had stock M700's, trued, screwed and glued M700's, and high quality custom actions, there's no comparison to the better custom actions which is what a Vudoo action is.

[GrocMax]

Another mini is the Mossberg 5.56 MVP. Bolt is about the same as the pic of the Howa mini above (~6"), action is 1.20" diameter and 5.35" long. Ejection port is slightly over 2" long. Uses AR15 mags. Feeds 17FB just fine, as long as the rounds are stacked to the rear. Only bolt head is the .375" (223). Barrel has an odd tenon and thread (7/8"-28 1.400" long).

I chose it over the Howa mini because of the magazine system.

Barrel nuts and recoil lugs- PT&G
Triggers- Jard