6x10mm Auto

[propeine]

Originally Posted by ray h

How many flutes? What did you use to cut them?

3...I had intended for 6 but the bottleneck was bigger than expected. I would have had to set up on an angle and didn't so 6 flutes would have been no reamer left.

I used my Bridgeport and a collet block. Used the Bridgeport for relief too. I've only ever made D bit reamers before since I only got the mill last fall.

[squirrel_slayer]

darnit! lol I was hoping you said you used a lathe to cut the flutes! I'm going to try (key word here) to use my lathe to cut the flutes for my reamer using a 1/2" boring bar holder no less. I'm tempted to tighten up the gibs on everything but the cross slide to minimize play. looks good! excellent idea on the 1 reamer for dies and roughing.

[propeine]

Originally Posted by squirrel_slayer

darnit! lol I was hoping you said you used a lathe to cut the flutes! I'm going to try (key word here) to use my lathe to cut the flutes for my reamer using a 1/2" boring bar holder no less. I'm tempted to tighten up the gibs on everything but the cross slide to minimize play. looks good! excellent idea on the 1 reamer for dies and roughing.

Oh it can be done! I used my lathe for lots of ridiculous things before getting the mill. Here is a little work holder I made for cutting scoops in silencer baffles that used a boring bar holder like you're talking about.

Use a collet for the endmill (I learned that after this photo) if you're going to do it or a 4 jaw. It will probably chatter but light cuts and tight gibs/carriage lock will help.

[squirrel_slayer]

I thought the screen name looked familiar. I remember your build on silencer talk.

going to have to be the 4 jaw dialed in. haven't sprung for a collet setup yet. in all seriousness lathe companies should give out machines for free as they make a killing on tooling and peripheral's. I thought I got a bargain getting mine for $800 I easily have double that into it with chucks, centers, tooling, tool post, ect...

[propeine]

Originally Posted by squirrel_slayer

I thought the screen name looked familiar. I remember your build on silencer talk.

going to have to be the 4 jaw dialed in. haven't sprung for a collet setup yet. in all seriousness lathe companies should give out machines for free as they make a killing on tooling and peripheral's. I thought I got a bargain getting mine for $800 I easily have double that into it with chucks, centers, tooling, tool post, ect...

Yup I'm new here but I've been around snipershide, silencer talk, and nfa talk for a long time.

I'm with you on the tooling. Lathe came with none but thankfully the mill came well equipped aside from the rotary table I'm lacking.

On to results! On the first page, the intended dimensions are posted. .422 at the taper transition and .268 for the neck. I ended up .0005 big at the transition depending how I measure and a hair small for the neck itself. The neck is an easy fix. Pics below.

I'm using bullet sizing dies to start the necking down process since I had them already. Only the final die was made with the reamer.

The case needs trimmed but of course my rifle length trimmer is way too long.








ETA trimmed the case to the right OAL. Capacity is 16.3gr H20. Almost 2gr less than expected. I'm sure it will go up a bit after fireforming. So right around 22 hornet improved range which bodes well.

[squirrel_slayer]

looks good. sounds like you'll be in a similar burn range as the .223 short I'm playing with. similar case capacity as yours unfireformed. lil gun is where it's at so far. (played with h110, 2400 and still need to try 1680) I'm dumbfounded of the efficiency of these lil guys. I get 3260 ft/sec avg. from a 18.5" barrel with 40gr bullets and 2700! from a 6" barreled AR @ a calculated 50-55k psi (quickload)zero pressure signs. best part is this is with a mere 13.5gr of powder and the report is far less than full .223 even from the 6" barrel.

depending what pressures you run this guy at I bet you'll get similar velocities from the heavier bullet. the .223 short struggles with 55's velocity fell off dramatically so I ceased testing. (2300ish from the 18.5" barrel granted in the 40k psi calculated range) I do plan on trying the 53gr nosler though. I'm hoping with is shorter bearing surface and high bc it will be a nice heavy option for the cartridge. 3.5gr or titegroup over the 40gr is an absolute riot! 22 mag velocities with 22lr report. I still need to fire up the pot to try my lee 55gr casting mold and see how they group subsonic/suppressed.

Look forward to your progress.

PS what material did you make your die from 4130/40? did you harden it?

[propeine]

Originally Posted by squirrel_slayer

looks good. sounds like you'll be in a similar burn range as the .223 short I'm playing with. similar case capacity as yours unfireformed. lil gun is where it's at so far. (played with h110, 2400 and still need to try 1680) I'm dumbfounded of the efficiency of these lil guys. I get 3260 ft/sec avg. from a 18.5" barrel with 40gr bullets and 2700! from a 6" barreled AR @ a calculated 50-55k psi (quickload)zero pressure signs. best part is this is with a mere 13.5gr of powder and the report is far less than full .223 even from the 6" barrel.

depending what pressures you run this guy at I bet you'll get similar velocities from the heavier bullet. the .223 short struggles with 55's velocity fell off dramatically so I ceased testing. (2300ish from the 18.5" barrel granted in the 40k psi calculated range) I do plan on trying the 53gr nosler though. I'm hoping with is shorter bearing surface and high bc it will be a nice heavy option for the cartridge. 3.5gr or titegroup over the 40gr is an absolute riot! 22 mag velocities with 22lr report. I still need to fire up the pot to try my lee 55gr casting mold and see how they group subsonic/suppressed.

Look forward to your progress.

PS what material did you make your die from 4130/40? did you harden it?

How does your quickload match up with your real world velocity? I'm really hoping for 2k out of an 8" pistol (that doesn't exist yet). Quickload says I'll hit it barely but maybe it is estimating low since the case size is out of the ordinary. My pressures will be lower at least at first. 10mm is only good to 38ksi which will hold me back alot. I may be able to push that a bit in a bolt action though. Mag length will hold me back too with Tokarev or 1911 mags. You're workign with ppsh mags right?

Mostly I'm doing it to learn a few things new but I'm hoping to end up with sort of a woodchuck/varmint pistol concept. Something that is good to ~150 yards with good accuracy, a pistol scope, and can live in the car.

I already had a 20" 6mm barrel that is slated for a 6mm Grendel. I'll try to compare real world velocity to expected results then continue from there. Worst case, I run the Grendel reamer in and I'm out about 4" of O1, some scrap and some time.

AA7, Blue Dot, Lil Gun all look promising. Power pistol too for that matter although case fill isn't great.

To be honest, I may end up making a 2 ogive 40ish gr swaging die at some point if the 55s look good. I should be able to get better velocity than 22cal theoretically.

As for the die. It's just some junk steel I had laying around that was already .875. I'll likely just case harden them if necessary. I don't expect to be shooting thousands of these little guys either.

[squirrel_slayer]

most powders track pretty closely (within 30-50ft/sec) with quickload except lil gun and RL17. those in my experience track correctly as far as pressures are concerned (although I don't own pressure equipment) but I get considerably more velocity with both powders.

I want to say QL predicted 2400ish with 13.5gr lil gun and the armscor 40gr bullet and I get 2670-2700.

Yes with the AR I'm using ppsh mags which are 1.4" but I keep them 1.390" so I'm confined to the short round bullets but I like the armscor 40gr so far. I broke my #55 bit (.0520") trying to drill my gas port. was cutting beautifully taking it nice and slow with vipers venom and just as it was cutting through the tip broke. literally just 1 flute of the bit and now I'm clueless how to get it out. I can see the dimple in the bore so I'm half tempted to load a round and see what happens. lol ideas? so I kinda shelved the barrel and moved onto another project

For the bolt gun I single feed it and so far liking the 40gr v-max best in it.

I think you can easily get away with more pressure from a bolt pistol or any closed breech gun for that matter especially with starline brass. 40-45k should be safe I bet. just keep measuring the web as you work up keeping an eye out for case head separation. but then again large pistol primers will likely be the weak link (why 454 casull uses small rifle) want to say dick casull mentioned it being an issue even with his tight cylinder 45 colts. cci 350's were the thickest I believe.

I want to try my hand at some swaging dies in the near future as well but for rimfire jacketed bullets.

so I take it the case formed fairly smoothly? I bought some 4130 to make my die and heard the hardness is needed as the softer the metal the "sticker" it is.

[georgeld]

Looks slick from here. Even better is sharing the work in progress.
BUT: It's all been done before, and told about on here even around 15-20 years ago. Paul Rogers: aka Rogersvich. Look him up IF the sites history still goes back that far.

Paul made just about all the cases clear down to .25acp. He called that either the flea or skeeter. He sent me one of each. A/h I had taking care of the place while i was laid up, didn't recall what he'd done with 'em. I haven't found a lot of things since either. Had a dish full of 30 plus .17 cal cases, just about all Paul made were .17's, plus many others Ray and others sent me.

He used D reamers and sent me one for the .17 VR, I made a die with it. Think he used drill rod. Easy to temper that stuff. 400 deg in the oven, then drop in a bucket of water and it's done. Be aware it's mighty easy to over heat one of those D reamers. I found it worked much better to drill things out close then with lots of cutting oil, turn the chuck by hand and clean it real often.

I do believe he made up rifle barrels to play with though and not semi's.

Good luck and have fun, Hope you learn what you're trying for.

[propeine]

Originally Posted by squirrel_slayer

most powders track pretty closely (within 30-50ft/sec) with quickload except lil gun and RL17. those in my experience track correctly as far as pressures are concerned (although I don't own pressure equipment) but I get considerably more velocity with both powders.

I want to say QL predicted 2400ish with 13.5gr lil gun and the armscor 40gr bullet and I get 2670-2700.
Darn I was hoping it was estimating low for whatever reason!
Yes with the AR I'm using ppsh mags which are 1.4" but I keep them 1.390" so I'm confined to the short round bullets but I like the armscor 40gr so far. I broke my #55 bit (.0520") trying to drill my gas port. was cutting beautifully taking it nice and slow with vipers venom and just as it was cutting through the tip broke. literally just 1 flute of the bit and now I'm clueless how to get it out. I can see the dimple in the bore so I'm half tempted to load a round and see what happens. lol ideas? so I kinda shelved the barrel and moved onto another project

Maybe a #1 carbide center drill? Depends how deep in there it is I suppose. Alternatively, punch it out larger and run an adjustable gas block. If your barrel is stainless you might be able to dissolve it out too. I've heard of guys doing that with taps. Hell I'd try it with a loaded round and a pull string if nothing else worked.

What are you using for a magwell adapter for the PPSH mags?

For the bolt gun I single feed it and so far liking the 40gr v-max best in it.

I think you can easily get away with more pressure from a bolt pistol or any closed breech gun for that matter especially with starline brass. 40-45k should be safe I bet. just keep measuring the web as you work up keeping an eye out for case head separation. but then again large pistol primers will likely be the weak link (why 454 casull uses small rifle) want to say dick casull mentioned it being an issue even with his tight cylinder 45 colts. cci 350's were the thickest I believe.

Agreed I should be able to push it

I want to try my hand at some swaging dies in the near future as well but for rimfire jacketed bullets.

That is what I want to use for jackets as well. 6mm ones from 22lr should be nice and thin for good varmint explosions

so I take it the case formed fairly smoothly? I bought some 4130 to make my die and heard the hardness is needed as the softer the metal the "sticker" it is.

Yup they formed up smoothly as long as I went slow enough to let the brass move. If I tried to push it like I was cranking out 9mm on a progressive, the cases collapsed. I polished up the inside with 800 and 1200 while it was still on the lathe. Between that and the sizing wax I wouldn't say it took much more effort than normal. I need to polish the entrance to the intermediate ones.

Originally Posted by georgeld

Looks slick from here. Even better is sharing the work in progress.
BUT: It's all been done before, and told about on here even around 15-20 years ago. Paul Rogers: aka Rogersvich. Look him up IF the sites history still goes back that far.

Paul made just about all the cases clear down to .25acp. He called that either the flea or skeeter. He sent me one of each. A/h I had taking care of the place while i was laid up, didn't recall what he'd done with 'em. I haven't found a lot of things since either. Had a dish full of 30 plus .17 cal cases, just about all Paul made were .17's, plus many others Ray and others sent me.

He used D reamers and sent me one for the .17 VR, I made a die with it. Think he used drill rod. Easy to temper that stuff. 400 deg in the oven, then drop in a bucket of water and it's done. Be aware it's mighty easy to over heat one of those D reamers. I found it worked much better to drill things out close then with lots of cutting oil, turn the chuck by hand and clean it real often.

I do believe he made up rifle barrels to play with though and not semi's.

Good luck and have fun, Hope you learn what you're trying for.

I remember that name from looking into all things 20 cal years ago as well of and perhaps more importantly from when I was a member of homegunsmithing! Saubier has been on my radar for a long time actually. Just never joined as I didn't have anything to contribute. Photobucket has messed up a lot of his old threads.

I never expected to be doing anything new and if a cartridge was outstanding then I probably would have come across it already. The TCM had been made before after all as a wildcat, same with the Grendel, the 224 Valk is just a 22x6.8 basically.

I like 6mm for its range of bullet weights. It may not turn out to be optimal for this case size but playing on the machines teaches me things and keeps me out of trouble.