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Old 09-27-2020, 11:48 PM
platapus platapus is offline
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Default My 17 and 20-.223 Improved load development experience

I posted this on another site and am sharing it here as well. I hope it helps someone.

I've had a few .204s, which started my admiration of the small calibers. My favorite was an AR with a Shilen barrel I built to shoot the the 50gr Berger. I sold that rifle with 1k of the Bergers, I kick myself.

On a side note, the only folks to make decent coyote bullets for the 17 and 20 any more are custom bullet makers. Please support them.

IMO, I think the 20 cal with the right bullet is the best bang for your buck for a coyote caliber. Fast,flat, excellent BC, excellent barrel life, and minimal if any pelt damage.

I do not use polymer tipped bullets period for coyotes, to many mixed results. I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't but I won't.

Fast forward and I built a 223 40° Improved in an AR with a Hart barrel shooting the 68gr Hornaday HPBT. Rifle shoots fine but I guess I just never really fell in love with it like the 204.

I have 400ish rounds loaded with the 68gr and when they're shot up, this rifle will get a 20 cal barrel. Yeah, you guessed it, a 20-223 Improved.

The 40° Improved design, you just don't have to trim. Big plus even though I have the equipment to do it.

Being I bought Redding Type S bushing dies, I decided to build a 20-223 Improved. This time in a bolt gun with a steel Proof barrel.

Why go this route over a 204 you might ask? I am not a fan of Hornaday brass whatsoever. This is based on my experience only, in several calibers. Yeah, I know that there are other 204 brass manufacturers but not Lapua. 223 Lapua brass necked down is as consistent as it gets and will last forever. Well not forever but 15+ reloadings with annealing is as good as it gets.

Benchmark is my go to powder for the 20 cal. I learned this testing different powders with my first few 204s. It just works. Other powders tested were Varget, H322, and Ram Shot Big Game.

Fire forming load is 24.5 gr Benchmark shooting the 39gr SBK. Shot half moa right off the bat, consistently. I fire formed 200 rounds and started load development with the 39gr SBK for pd's, and the 40gr BiB for coyotes.

*Disclaimer*- charge weights listed are for MY rifle! Do your own workup! I am sharing this because there just wasn't this type of data out there for me and hope it will help someone with similar setups. I did reach out to several folks I found who were great in sharing data.

Both bullets were tested 24.7gr-26.5gr Benchmark in .2gr increments, 3 rounds each and shot over a Magneto Speed 3 chronograph. I didn't see any pressure signs. Primers all looked good and no bolt swipes.

39gr SBK

24.7 3531 3554 3559 SD- 14.9 ES- 58
24.9 3554 3576 3561 SD- 16 ES- 32
25.1 3649 3523 3638 SD- 13 ES- 26 Chose this one obviously
25.3 3654 3623 3623 SD- 17.8 ES- 31 Close second
25.5 3720 3703 3654 SD- 34.2 ES- 41
25.7 3703 3753 3687 SD- 34.4 ES- 55
25.9 3736 3787 3720 SD- 35 ES- 67
26.1 3822 3822 3736 SD- 49.6 ES- 86
26.3 3858 3787 3822 SD- 35.4 ES- 71
26.5 3858 3805 3858 SD- 30.5 ES- 53

40gr BiB

24.7 3502 3427 3478 SD- 38.3 ES- 75
24.9 3470 3442 3506 SD- 32 ES- 64
25,1 3520 3481 3546 SD- 32.7 ES- 65
25.3 3601 3551 3509 SD- 46 ES- 92
25.5 3553 3608 3605 SD- 30.9 ES- 55
25.7 3652 3635 3611 SD- 20.6 ES- 41
25.9 3702 3608 3651 SD- 26.2 ES- 49
26.1 3702 3689 3679 SD- 11.5 ES- 23. Chose this one obviously
26.3 3679 3663 3703 SD- 20.1 ES- 40
26.5 3682 3757 3748 SD- 40.9 ES- 75

Notice there is a full grain difference between the two bullets. It's all harmonics.

I haven't made it back out to complete the seating depth test. It will go as follows and I will update the thread with the results.

39gr SBK- 1.927-1.900 BTO 3 rounds each in .003 increments at 250 yards or so.


Now for the 17-223 Improved.

I had an Plum Crazy Lower sitting for 10 years that needed used. I found a Lija AR barrel here and picked it it. Easy once again being I had the Redding bushing dies. I gathered the rest of the parts needed and threw it together.

My plan for this one was as light as I could build it shoot a 30gr bullet. I know the 17s are super finicky to load for and did a lot of research on powders. I should have just trusted my gut and went with Benchmark as I'll explain.

I used once fired LC brass sorted by weight and sized them down. 6 steps I belive. It was tedious but I don't mind.

Fire formed with 25gr Hornaday Vmax with 24gr Benchmark. Load shot at moa, nothing special but I wasn't concerned, just wanted them formed.

I originally went with Ram Shot Big Game shooting the Nagle 30gr. 25.5gr-27.7gr in half gr increments. The 27.7 load is what I initially went with but determined I was just in the pressure curve so backed off to 26.6 with an average speed of 3727 fps. Load shot right at moa. I threw out the load development data on the Big Game or I would have posted it. Nothing real consistent or to write home about. High SD's and even higher ES's.

On a whim, I decided to do a charge weight test with Benchmark, man am I glad I did.

I did the exact same charge weights as with the 20-223. 24.7gr-26.5gr, 3 loads each.

30 gr Nagel

24.7 3944 4025 3987 SD- 40.5 ES- 81
24.9 4006 4006 4006 SD- 0 ES- 0 WHAT!!!
25.3 4055 4077

And that is where I stopped. I had a failure to feed on the 3 shot of 25.3 and the bullet stuck in the barrel, powder everywhere. Hate that.

Still have to do the seating depth test with these. I loaded them at 1.937 BTO or 2.25 oal for mag length but obviously a little long if I stuck one in the barrel. I will back off .020 and test 1.953-1.928 BTO in .003 increments.

I hope this helps someone and would be happy to answer any questions.
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Old 09-29-2020, 01:37 AM
platapus platapus is offline
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I finally made it out, wind has been ripping here and there was a window just before dusk.

I shot the .20-223 Improved at 267 yards, 3 round groups.

39gr SBK- best seating 1.906 BTO shot a .891 group
40gr BiB- best seating 1.871 BTO shot a 1.138 group

Very pleased with these.

Basically found a load for each bullet in 60 rounds.

I ran out of daylight for the .17 but am going out Thursday and will update.
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  #3  
Old 10-01-2020, 07:34 PM
platapus platapus is offline
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Went out this morning with the. 17-223Imp to completed the seating depth test. At 268 yards, seating 1.935 3 shot group 1.018.

Needless to say, pretty excited about this load. Ran some quick numbers 1 inch drop at 300, 2' at 366, 3" at 422.

That's flat!
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  #4  
Old 10-13-2020, 07:40 PM
Wiserfool Wiserfool is offline
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Thank you for these posts sir. I built myself a 20-223 AI and love it. It;s my first sub .224 chambering. I have been messing around with Win 748 and had not considered going with a burn rate as fast as Benchmark. I'm checking out some lighter bullets so I guess I should. I appreciate hearing about your experiences.
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  #5  
Old 10-13-2020, 09:52 PM
platapus platapus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiserfool View Post
Thank you for these posts sir. I built myself a 20-223 AI and love it. It;s my first sub .224 chambering. I have been messing around with Win 748 and had not considered going with a burn rate as fast as Benchmark. I'm checking out some lighter bullets so I guess I should. I appreciate hearing about your experiences.
You're welcome, Benchmark works really well. H4895 and IMR8028 are two others I've wanted to try but BM is working and I have quite a bit on hand.
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  #6  
Old 10-13-2020, 10:28 PM
GrocMax GrocMax is offline
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Your ES/SD numbers will change with a proper sample size. 3 shots isn't enough. 10 is better.
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  #7  
Old 10-14-2020, 01:15 AM
GLWenzl GLWenzl is offline
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Ramshot Big game was a little on the slow side for my 17 Remingtons and even the 20 BR. I have had similar results as you with Ramshot Tac. It just seems like a go to powder for me from as small as a 17 Javelina Imp, 17-222, 17 Rem and the 20BR (which it liked every powder I tried in it)
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  #8  
Old 10-14-2020, 01:44 PM
Wiserfool Wiserfool is offline
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Quote:
BM is working and I have quite a bit on hand
That's why I was on the 748 kick. After the "Hillary might win" powder shortage, which eventually dried up the supply in Canada too, I made up my mind to never be caught again without a good supply of components. I still have around 12 pounds of 748, which works fantastic in my 222 and to fire form 223 into 223 AI, so I went with what I'm familiar with in the 20-223 AI.
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  #9  
Old 10-14-2020, 02:54 PM
platapus platapus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrocMax View Post
Your ES/SD numbers will change with a proper sample size. 3 shots isn't enough. 10 is better.
Yes they will, fully understand that. I used to do the 10 shot sting but what I learned is that the numbers will change as the barrel heats up as well.

So, 3 shots will give me enough data to proceed with seating depth testing. Once I have the charge and seating nodes, I then true my muzzle velocity. That's the key, after you have the charge and seating node dialed in IMO.

I am not an expert by any means but have been reloading for almost 30 years and am always learning.

I did 4 rifles and 5 bullets with this method. First time in my life where I've had a consistent sub half moa load in 60 rounds of load development. I think I'll stick with it until I learn something new that can improve the process.

You all know the saying, "If I only knew then what I know now" I'd not have wasted so much time and components making a rifle shoot thats acceptable to one's self.

Whatever works for you is what you should stick with. I just shared my recent experiences with 2 calibers and what worked for me. I hope it helps anyone, the small calibers are really finicky.
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  #10  
Old 10-14-2020, 03:56 PM
TinMan TinMan is offline
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Interesting discussion. I have always just stuck with five shot groups and chronograph strings. I have had several statistics courses over the years, and five shot groups seemed about right, depending on the precision needed. For some critical precision machining operations I have seen samples of 15 used.
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