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  #11  
Old 11-20-2020, 10:16 PM
AzSam AzSam is offline
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Can small rifle mag primers be used in place of small pistol primers?

Yes.

Treat as you would any other change in components. Do not just randomly swap one for the other. Start low, work back up.
Small rifle mag is a bit overkill, but it will work. Old red box Federal 200's read on the box, "small rifle primers and high velocity pistol. A SRM is just be another step up in primer force.
I have tried SRM's in a 357 mag using 296 to see if the added umph would be of any benefit. 1 step forward and 2 steps back. SPM's showed more uniform velocities, SD, vel spreads, and better groups than the SRMs.
Yes they will work, but in my experience, SRM in place of a SPM is too much of a good thing. See what Dean2 had to say.
Then there may be the other variable-- will the firing mechanism/hammer have enough force to properly set off the SRM primer? More than likely.

Conversely, I use to shoot standard small pistol Fed 100's or WSP's in a TC 22 Hornet with 8.4grs of H4227 behind a 50gr cast bullets for IHMSA field pistol where the max range was 100yds. The Fed 200 was too much umph for the 8.5grs of 800-X in that load, with the standard SP's providing better results.

Hope this helps.
Michael.
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  #12  
Old 11-20-2020, 10:26 PM
Johnly Johnly is offline
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Minimum and maximum dimensions of primer pockets

Here is a table of the minimum and maximum primer pocket and primer dimensions. Surprisingly this data isn't too easy to find, so I have done the research for you. Dimensions in inches.
Primer pocket dimensions and tolerances Pocket Type Depth Min Depth Max Diameter Min Diameter Max
Small Rifle/Pistol 0.1170 0.1230 0.1730 0.1745
Large Rifle 0.1250 0.1320 0.2085 0.2100
Large Pistol 0.1170 0.1230 0.2085 0.2100
Primer dimensions and tolerances Primer Type Height Min Height Max Diameter Min Diameter Max
Small Rifle/Pistol 0.1150 0.1260 0.1745 0.1765
Large Rifle 0.1230 0.1360 0.2105 0.2130
Large Pistol 0.1150 0.1260 0.2100 0.2120

It's interesting to note that while small pistol and small rifle primers are exactly the same size, the same is not true of large pistol vs large rifle. I have heard of people substituting small pistol and small rifle primers during desperate times, but one should always be careful of pressure increases and the potential for pierced primers if one resorts to such extreme measures. It's always best to use components as they were intended.

Another notable fact is the overlap in tolerances. The largest primer is taller than the shallowest pocket, and the loosest in-spec pocket is the same size as the smallest in-spec primer. It's for these reasons that we sometimes run into so much frustration with certain brands of brass and primers.
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  #13  
Old 11-21-2020, 12:09 AM
AzSam AzSam is offline
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There are a good number of BPCR shooters that routinely use LP's in place of LR's, myself included. Sometimes with an over primer wad to help make up some of the difference in height. Some don't even worry about it, seat it and shoot it. 2-1/2's and 155M's producing good results.

One of the reasons behind it all is to keep the powder charge, and in turn the projectile, if the BP charge is compressed to begin with, from being moved forward from the force of the primer before the powder charge has a chance to ignite. Of coarse pressures are no where near smokeless loads. 20-25K, if even that.
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  #14  
Old 11-21-2020, 12:38 AM
Jingle Jingle is offline
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Thank you AzSam.

Its not that I'm looking for "what I wanna hear" its more about logic. I don't think its safe to play around without any knowledge, but there is a degree of wiggle room outside of published data. Right?

I have CCi SRP BR-4
CCI SRPM-450
and Remington srp 6 1/2

So maybe start with IMR 4227 starting load with each over a chrono and watch for signs for piercing or pressure.

Also if the bullet where to move forward from the case because of the primer would it cause the dreaded S.E.E effect or is that just BS?
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  #15  
Old 11-21-2020, 03:08 AM
georgeld georgeld is offline
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One thing that will help matters

is not to load to the max charge.

Medium loads you can get by with a lot of things where

a max charge would be asking for troubles.

After a few years and learning it didn't pay. I stopped running
my cars wide open too.

I don't understand why anyone would run their guns at full max either.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

I've used lots of SR's in SP loads and never saw any difference.

Most likely because I don't ever crowd max charges in anything.

Except when I'm sorting loads out for a new gun. Then I load 3 of each
from light to what I know is over max. Watching the brass n primers and
chrono's readings. When the velocity drops or stays the same with more
powder, it's time to back off. Those loads always are fired with the proper
primers.

I've had a saying for years: "be safe first, then have fun"

That applies to everything.
__________________
George

"Gun Control is NOT about guns,
it's about CONTROL!!"
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  #16  
Old 11-21-2020, 03:32 AM
Jingle Jingle is offline
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Right on George!

Words of wisdom.

I'm not concerned with pushing the envelope, besides not sure how the Hornady 85 and 100 gr xtps will hold up out of the 327 fed mag Henry carbine? I did see some tests with over 2000 fps in the 20 inch barrel but I would think the extra barrel length is a moot point concerning this round out of a rifle.

Last edited by Jingle; 11-21-2020 at 03:35 AM.
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  #17  
Old 11-21-2020, 04:30 AM
AzSam AzSam is offline
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Hi,

Hmmm, 327 Fed. Kinda like a short rimmed .30 Carbine, in a lever gun. Cool.

With the 6-1/2 being standard SR. Think Fed 200- small rifle or high velocity pistol (see earlier reply)

Save your 450's, and BR-4's.

Ditto on what George said.

Again, no difference using SRM's, and in my experience the results were counter productive.

Sounds like I really muddied the waters, my apologies. Never mind about the BP stuff, I never should of gone there. Sorry about that. There are other sites that deal specifically with black magic.
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  #18  
Old 11-21-2020, 05:11 AM
Jingle Jingle is offline
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AzSam, look at your last post, lol what are the odds it was your 327th post
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  #19  
Old 11-21-2020, 12:56 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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Now that is a one in a million occurence, Right
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  #20  
Old 11-21-2020, 01:34 PM
JSH JSH is offline
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Having played with the 327 and with what I would call 32-20 Blackhawk only loads, I have not had to use a magnum primer.

Some may raise an eyebrow at what can be done with the 32-20 in a modern, heavy revolver let alone a rifle. There is a fair size circle of users.

The 327 is what the 32 magnum wanted to be. The 327 wishes it could do what the 32-20 heavy loads do.

I will admit to having tried several different primers in all three. Platforms were BF, MOA, TC and Ruger Blackhawk. I never pierced a primer in any with any load. No ignition issues from any with rifle primers due to hard or thick cups.
I settled on small pistol standard for all, CCI first choice, WW second. I acquired some “foreign” primers that I am just now playing with, theylook to be as hard as rifle primers but ignition seems as good as pistol as far as heat.

My FA 357 uses a heavy charge of 296/H110 with a WW SRP. This rig has been in use with that and castbullet of 190-220 for a long time,steady diet. This lot of Starline brass (500) has over 18 loadings and primer pockets are now worn from use and not pressure imho.

I would let the chrono and the gun tell you what it likes or wants.
Some folks look at primers pretty serious on a way to determine pressure. I myself don’t put a lot of stock in it, but do keep an eye on it.
I mean say in your instance, use a standard SP primer and it’s flat, but your load is a soft book load. Does that mean it is high pressure? Switch primers and there is no sign, does that mean your safe now? Term false positive comes to mind.

I had a pile of Federal primers I burned up with some standard mid range loads. To look at them you would think pressures were in sane.
Use my findings as you will.

Last edited by JSH; 11-21-2020 at 01:37 PM.
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