Go Back > Forums > Small Caliber Discussion Board

Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-18-2006, 02:17 PM
GLWenzl GLWenzl is offline
Supporting Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,641

I did not post here because it looked like you guys did a great job of covering everything. However I decided to post a copy/paste from an e-mail I sent out because I have been contacted by a couple guys via e-mail about going from no reloading equipment straight to some of the smallest 17 calibers. Just some things to think about....

I “think” Daryl (on Saubier) used a17 HMR barrel for something and I believe it worked well as a centerfire barrel. I am thinking it was a Green Mountain SS Bull barrel???

I forgot to finish typing what I was thinking??? I’ll blame it on working 12-14 hours a day plus a (couple hrs driving) for the last 45 days or so and working straight through for a portion until last weekend and now am getting the weekends off so I’ll blame it on being over tired but I had it in my mind when I replied the first time and must of forgot before I go it written down…

On the Squirrel case it requires many extra reloading tools if you make your own cases. Form dies; a way to cut off the cases, a neck turning tool and then the cases should be annealed….

5 mm mag/17 CCM brass requires a great deal more however it is all done when you purchase them and you pay for it at 60.00 @100. I am not sure how much the squirrel cases go for but you can check it out at .

I am not trying to discourage you but want you to recognize everything before you purchase a press, powder measure, scale and all the other many things needed to play with some of these small cases. This is a super fun hobby for me and I really didn’t start out like you are planning to do, sort-a- grew into it??? Don’t want to see you get discouraged and all of your stuff ends up for sale!!!

Above all else be safe! A grain of powder in these small cases can make a huge difference. You have to know exactly what you are doing and be able to recognize any abnormally and what the expected results will be. Trust but verify, you see a load on the net be sure to verify everything and think about it hard before pulling the trigger on your gun with “that” load. I make many typos and like I said before 1 grain might make the difference between a safe load in one riffle and a gun blow-up in another… That said if I can do this anyone can (and I mean that) so good luck to ya, gw

PS I might copy/paste this to saubier for others whom are considering reloading these small cases….
Shoot First... Ask questions later... On
NRA Lifetime Endowment Member
Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2006, 09:46 PM
Alex Alex is offline
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Tidewater, Virginia
Posts: 1,700
Default 17 Sq is...

..., according to Dan Pickett, the most dangerous caliber Cooper chambers for.

I'd have to try to steer they away from the 17Sq, to the 17AH. You can still screw up, but it's a little more difficult. I learned to reload on a 22H, and had a ball doing it.

I concur completely with your sentiments, but think that for a new reloader, the 22H and then a 17AH would be the way to go.

Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2007, 03:52 AM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
Supporting Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Tomball/Klein, Texas
Posts: 3,989
Default Two kinds of Internet reloaders scare me......

1. Those who want "pet" loads for a certain cartridge and bluntly say they don't own a reloading manual, "so please help me"...


2. Those who publish a load on the Internet that is over max in most manuals but state that the load is perfectly safe in their rifle because, "Everyone knows reloading manuals and powder companies are conservative in what they publish".

I just hope I'm not sitting beside one of them at a rifle range when something unexpected happens.


I miss mean Tweets, competence, and $1.79 per gallon gasoline.

Yo no creo en santos que orinan.

Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and just get used to the idea.

Going keyboard postal over something that you read on the internet is like seeing a pile of dog crap on the sidewalk and choosing to step in it rather than stepping around it.

If You're Afraid To Offend, You Can't Be Honest - Thomas Paine
Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2007, 02:44 AM
coyotekory coyotekory is offline
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mn, USA
Posts: 71

I have posted loads on this site and I hope all of you use the same caution I did when I worked them up in my rifles. Nothing scares me more than hearing someone sold my reloads to a friend of his for a gun that was not tested for this load.
Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 05:51 AM
brettTC brettTC is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Az
Posts: 108
Default Different action too

I think lot of people just assume their gun is the same as every one else's. I shoot mostly T/C Contenders so I have an action that takes lot less pressure to screw up. Lots of reloading manuals have data that is to hot for a contender but okay in bolt guns. Most people that are looking for reloading data on the net are just taking short cuts to that "Magic Load". But I have never found it.
Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2008, 07:44 PM
NFG NFG is offline
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 99
Default Humans DON'T listen

I subscribe to what most of the posters are saying...They're people that shouldn't be allowed anywhere near any kind of mechanical device...moving vehicles OR stationary ones, kitchen appliances, tools AND especially firearms...yet these same people seem to gravitate toward the very things they should stay away from.

HUMANS JUST WON'T LISTEN...and many don't have a clue at all about much of anything. Somehow Mother Nature let them survive to pass on their genes.

Those of us that continually stress safety...START LOW AND WORK UP SLOW...are just preaching to the choir because hardly any of this information gets to those that need it the most...because THEY JUST DON'T LISTEN, and won't take the time to learn, WON'T READ OR LISTEN ANYTHING THEY DON'T LIKE...sound familiar?

In this information age no one has the time or the patients to learn the nuances of's instant gratification...I want it now...forget paying the required dues or sweat equity, and there are too many people willing to spread their knowledge because THEY have the great need for another kind of instant gratification...besides all the profit motive crawling around out there

We humans are an amazing to destroy our own home just to have the "latest and greatest" that some other human decides is what we "want" and we can't keep our "devices" out of other "devices" of the opposite persuasion.

I also think there is a very large pile of BS continually piling up on the internet initiated by all the wannabees and armchairs who've hardly ever had a gun in their hands unless it's in a shop, and that continually hound shop proprietors with "let me see that one" then wave it around like they know something, when those that really know and understand from the way the handle the gun and the questions they ask that they don't know squat... then run to the internet and brag or start asking the same questions, that keep all those who like to pontificate all worked up to "show them the way".

We are a "free" nation, which means we/they/us/them are free to be just as dumb/stupid/ignorant as we want to be, without any reguard for ourselves or anyone around us. Just think about this thread next time you're out on the range...maybe you will take a closer look at those beside you, especially if they start asking questions like "how do I load this thing".

Every time I read a post, from someone who is obviously a newbee, I want to share "my knowledge" and get that warm and fuzzy feeling from helping or paying back my own "Karmic debt"...then after I think, "Jeezzz what did I really just do, help someone or put them in danger because they don't know squat about the nuances I have learned, use and didn't mention?"

I keep swearing I won't post another word, then here I am again...I JUST NEVER my own pontifications.


Last edited by NFG; 06-30-2008 at 07:46 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2009, 10:28 AM
kenbro kenbro is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Lancashire UK
Posts: 3,290

Hi all, as a long time shooter and novice reloader may i say thanks very much for this thread. Regards,KB.
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2009, 08:54 PM
cath8r cath8r is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ontario
Posts: 106

I finally got around to reading this thread. Glad I read it!!!
Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2010, 05:17 PM
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 50

He is some of my experience in regard to rifle-to-rifle variations in regard to loads/pressures:

.338-.378 Weatherby –-- My rifle produces 3,330 fps with 225-gr Nosler Accubonds with 106.5 grains of IMR-7828. There is data out there showing only 3200 fps for the same bullet weight and 2.7 grains more of the same powder. An easily explained difference is that my rifle does not have the Weatherby free-bore.

7 MM STW --- My rifle produces 3,550 fps with the 140-grain Nosler Ballistic Tip with 80.0 grains of IMR-7828. Layne Simpson’s original rifle in this caliber using the same bullet and 3.0 grain more of the same powder produced only 3,515 fps. If I increased the powder charge by 3.0 grains in my rifle I am sure that pressure would be extremely high and that I would not even be able to get the bolt open. I have no idea what the difference between the rifles is.

A pair of .17 Hornets --- These are barrels for Thompson-Center TCR-87 break-over single-shot rifles and the chambers were cut with the same reamer. However, the chamber in the first barrel had a very long throat, so I had the throat part of chamber reamer ground down before having the second barrel’s chamber cut. Distance from breech face to rifling for the second barrel is about 0.25 CM shorter (almost 1/10th-inch) than for the first barrel. I reduce the powder charge by 0.3 grains to get about the same velocity (and the same pressure?) out of the second barrel. Also, Winchester brass for the .22 Hornet weights about 5.0 grains more than Remington brass for the .22 Hornet. That much extra metal in the case would displace about 0.3 grains of powder capacity so I reduce the loads by 0.3 grains of powder when using Winchester brass. Finally, the second barrel’s chamber was cut very gradually until a loaded round using Remington brass would go off to insure minimum headspace. It will not shoot rounds constructed from Winchester brass as the rims are thicker and the action will not close on them. I don’t know how the other Thompson-Center break-over guns work, but for the TCR-87’s the trigger initiate the firing pin if the action is not absolutely closed.

That’s all - DON
Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-2010, 07:00 AM
georgeld georgeld is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pueblo, CO
Posts: 5,830
Send a message via MSN to georgeld

A few yrs ago I was loading .223's with AA 2200 & reading the lable as that's all the data that I could find. IT said: 23gr max w/40gr bullets.
About that same time I read a posting somewhere of a guy claiming to be getting real good results with 28gr & 55's.
Just for kicks I filled a case full just to see how much it held. Don't recall now what it was but, wouldn't hold that much.

Two yrs ago while trying to find max in my NEF .17x28. I'd loaded & fired a single case five times with 10.0gr H110 w/20gr V max. Fired fine, case looked good to me. So I upped the charge .2, yes, only two tenths to a charge of 10.2gr. otherwise the very same load and same case.

I blew the gun up!! Primer pocket blew out to 1/4" dia & split the head. Broke a few parts, blew the plastic trigger guard to pcs, drew blood from my trigger hand several places, it blew the action open, broken firing pin among other pcs broken. I got very lucky as that's all the damage done. & the gun was repaired for less than $20 with some new pcs.

Tiny cases, can be very dangerous with a tiny bit of powder. Whether it would have been fine with 10.1 gr I have no idea, nor will I be learning either. My max charge will be 9.8 or 10.0gr.

A very good thread Doug, thanks for starting it, and thanks to everyone else for posting too.

"Gun Control is NOT about guns,
it's about CONTROL!!"
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:48 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.