Saubier.com  



Go Back   Saubier.com > Saubier.com Forums > Small Caliber Discussion Board

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 07-26-2022, 05:56 PM
L.Sherm L.Sherm is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Havre, Montana
Posts: 692
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill K View Post
And, to muddy the water even further and make it a more difficult choice, aesthetically speaking, you sit a 20-222 next to the 20-222 with 40° shoulder, forget about it, the one with the 40° shoulder is just a hot looking little case and wins the beauty and cool factor contest all day long.
With exception B23, that the improved shoulder does not need trimming as often as the standard, like most all improved cartridges do.
And the 100 FPS, average, increase in velocity, is in the eye of the beholder, if they want it.
It just depends on what you want and like. Some like the improved case, some don't bother with it.
I have both, but do like and enjoy the improved shoulder design on more than one rifle I have, in various calibers. [/quote]
Billk 100% correct.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-27-2022, 12:26 AM
B23 B23 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 781
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill K View Post
And, to muddy the water even further and make it a more difficult choice, aesthetically speaking, you sit a 20-222 next to the 20-222 with 40° shoulder, forget about it, the one with the 40° shoulder is just a hot looking little case and wins the beauty and cool factor contest all day long.
With exception B23, that the improved shoulder does not need trimming as often as the standard, like most all improved cartridges do.
And the 100 FPS, average, increase in velocity, is in the eye of the beholder, if they want it.
It just depends on what you want and like. Some like the improved case, some don't bother with it.
I have both, but do like and enjoy the improved shoulder design on more than one rifle I have, in various calibers. [/quote]

I agree to a point and but I just haven't ever noticed a lot of difference in the amount of trimming required with any of my wildcat cartridges that have 35° and 40° shoulders versus those with 30° and shallower angles.

I can say this with certainty though, since switching over to using the Little Crow WFT2 trimmer on everything it's made trimming cases a much more pleasurable and way faster.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-27-2022, 12:56 PM
Gary in Illinois Gary in Illinois is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Taylorville, Illinois
Posts: 1,815
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiserfool View Post
It's interesting (and likely telling) that no one has even mentioned the 20 Extreme yet.......
Well, since you mentioned it, I have two 20 Extremes; one on a Sako L46 and one on a Bat SV.

Both shoot very well and cases are relatively easy to make. Headspace is at the same spot as the 222 Rem. Case is trimmed a little and the first shot blows the shoulder out slightly. I hesitate to call it fire forming since the change to the case is fairly slight.

It is a fine and very accurate cartridge but doesn't seem to be the second coming...

I didn't bring it up since it (or maybe its developer) seems to generate so much controversy.
__________________
Good shooting!

Gary

NRA Endowment Life Member
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-29-2022, 02:36 AM
mulepasture mulepasture is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 387
Default Disappointing that..

No one has started typing in all caps yet...lol
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-01-2022, 12:43 PM
Grey_Wolf Grey_Wolf is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Alberta
Posts: 115
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiserfool View Post
It's interesting (and likely telling) that no one has even mentioned the 20 Extreme yet.......
Ok. I'll chime in. I don't come in here often and just found this thread. I have built several 20 Extreme and love 'em, planning another on a Sako L461 action I have in the cupboard. I have given a couple to friends, one of which shoots a ton of coyotes annually (50 - 80) on his ranch. He has set aside all of his other varmint rifles to exclusively use his 20 Extreme. Forming isn't a big deal, run thru the die and trim to 1.575", no fire forming so quick and easy. I know Laverne rubbed a few the wrong way on here and was easily baited into a confrontation, but he did know his stuff. I will forever miss him. He was a wealth of knowledge. Talking with him about a load was like working with QuickLoad - he could figure loads in his head. It was amazing to see him work through a load and in most cases be as close as QuickLoad for results. I have several of his wildcats in my gun room - the 20 Extreme likely being one of the best.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-01-2022, 12:54 PM
Wiserfool Wiserfool is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 96
Default

Thanks for that Grey Wolf. On my first 20 build, I was offered the use of a 20 Extreme reamer but ended up ordering a 20-223 AI from Manson. I'm still "Extreme curious" though.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-01-2022, 05:32 PM
Grey_Wolf Grey_Wolf is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Alberta
Posts: 115
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiserfool View Post
Thanks for that Grey Wolf. On my first 20 build, I was offered the use of a 20 Extreme reamer but ended up ordering a 20-223 AI from Manson. I'm still "Extreme curious" though.
You're welcome. The 20 Extreme was my first 20 caliber build. I didn't see the need to try any others. As someone else said - I don't know if you can really go wrong with any of them. All have their benefits, all have their shortcomings. Laverne also experimented with a 20-223 but was in declining health the last couple of years and didn't pursue it too far. It was simply a necked down 223 case, no other alteration. He did get it going but I think felt the 20 Extreme was better.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-01-2022, 08:18 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: N.E. Kommie Kalifornia
Posts: 6,304
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf View Post
You're welcome. The 20 Extreme was my first 20 caliber build. I didn't see the need to try any others. As someone else said - I don't know if you can really go wrong with any of them. All have their benefits, all have their shortcomings. Laverne also experimented with a 20-223 but was in declining health the last couple of years and didn't pursue it too far. It was simply a necked down 223 case, no other alteration. He did get it going but I think felt the 20 Extreme was better.
We now have the 20-223, forget the man that brought it out, but many use it, it is the 20 Practical. Just size a 223 case down to 20 caliber, with no other mods.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-01-2022, 09:25 PM
Wiserfool Wiserfool is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 96
Default

Agreed. I'm not sure why the 20 Practical doesn't get more attention. It is pretty straight forward to produce and use. Reasonable quality brass is, well, usually free if you check the range bin.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-01-2022, 09:49 PM
B23 B23 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 781
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill K View Post
We now have the 20-223, forget the man that brought it out, but many use it, it is the 20 Practical. Just size a 223 case down to 20 caliber, with no other mods.
IMO, the 20-223 aka 20 Practical is just that, about as "practical" of a 20 cal wildcat as you can get. If you want a 20 cal and need/want to shoot factory ammo then you're only real option is a 204 Ruger and it's no slouch either.

I only went 20-222 because I already had a 20-250 and wanted something smaller with quality brass and would easily feed/extract through the Rem 700 223 action I was using. Had I not already had a 20-250 I would have had a 20 Practical built instead.

Which version of 20 cal is best is kind of like that other thread about what makes the perfect varmint rifle. Thankfully, we have lots and lots of different options so what's "best" or is "perfect" is mostly dependent on what the likes and dislikes are of the individual. Hell, ask me what I think is best or perfect, today, will likely not be the same answer I give six months from now.

Last edited by B23; 08-01-2022 at 09:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.