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Old 04-02-2018, 12:34 AM
pocketshaver pocketshaver is offline
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Default monolithic copper

a few years ago switched to using monolithic copper. The bullets draw was lack of shedding lead inside the deer, and an exit hole. A .243 may be nice on paper, but when a 100 grain bullet turns to dust inside a deer and merely leaves a half inch piece of jacket in the off side ribs, no blood trail, and long trailing an exit is nice...

However, I learned first hand that they don't have the shock value to the animal it hits. I have since seen accounts from professional animal shooters, I do mean shooters, from out west. The bullets can blow through at longer range then most soft points, but its like they don't do damage like a soft point.

I guess its even though they expand, they merely act like a .5 inch diameter screw driver getting stabbed into something, with the minimal damage being bleeding. While soft points hit, and make organs explode.

.223 is marginal no matter what I admit for things larger then 80 pounds. Soft points can do interesting damage but don't seem to give an exit hole either. Solid copper from barnes will penetrate and exit, but the tissue damage is still just like a knife/screw driver does.


150 grain solid copper HP from federal in a .308 at 30 yard hit can still give 4-500 yard trails to follow.

IS there a caliber that can use monolithic copper and actually be as effective as a 30-30 with 150 grain cor lokt?
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  #2  
Old 04-02-2018, 09:16 PM
17tbs 17tbs is offline
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Default Choice of bullet.

Short answer: Copper monolithic bullets aren't lead, so don't expect it will do things the same as lead.

Long answer below.



I changed to using copper bullets for the same exact reason. I do not know what bullet you are using, there are lots of copper bullet manufacturers currently providing lathe turned solids, or lathe turned HP.

I use the GSC bullets, or those from Barnes. I hand load everything I shoot.
http://www.gscustomusa.com/sp.html




If you notice that is not a HP bullet, yet it still expanded as you can see below. Velocity was about 3780fps at the muzzle. Velocity alone can cause even a solid copper bullet to perform. If you are still having troubles, change your bullet. These are also fine for punching paper at longer ranges. http://www.gscustomusa.com/a.html
If you are looking for expansion for a 308 at 150yds or more, you should consider this: https://www.wholesalehunter.com/Product/Details/1007346


https://www.midwayusa.com/product/10...free-box-of-50
Change your bullet, your approach to hunting, your approach to shot placement or perhaps a combination of any or all of the above. I have been using a GSC SP bullet for all my deer hunting, in Texas ANY centerfire is legal, so I use .223"Rem, .172" VHA or a .172"FB with all copper bullets. I shoot for the head and more specifically for the brain stem. Either I get close enough to do this while stalking, or I get a steady enough rest to place my shot. Heart shots are also sometimes used and they are "different " than the response I would get from a lead core bullet, I don't get lead fragments.

At velocities higher than 4000fps the monometal solid SP created plenty of hydro static shock for either a heart/lung shot, or anything else, but the monometal bullet ensures that I do not find myself crunching lead in a steak.


If you are using these and not getting the results you want, then get closer.


Also, if you are able to hit the top of the heart from a front quartering shot of about 30 or more from either level or up or down angle, you are likely going to hit the off side lung. That usually will terminate a deer in my experience because the hydrostatic shock impacting the spine directly above the heart receiving trauma.

Last edited by 17tbs; 04-02-2018 at 10:44 PM.
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  #3  
Old 04-03-2018, 10:58 AM
rickiesrevenge rickiesrevenge is offline
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You're just using the wrong copper bullets. Look into the lehigh bullet line. I kinda think its the best of both worlds. They are designed to come apart into 5 pieces creating multiple wound channels while still having the shank exit. I haven't killed enough deer for it to be conclusive but the ones I have shot died VERY quickly. They also shot MUCH better than the barnes bullets I've shot in the past. Best shooting bullet in my 284 so far.

Aaron
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Old 04-03-2018, 05:45 PM
260Ackley 260Ackley is offline
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I guess I'm old school and have stayed away from the full copper bullets . Loaded some of the Barnes up for a buddy and the bullet failed to expand and had to shoot the deer 4 times. Only reason it dropped was the final shot to the CNS. I know they have come a long way since but I've never bit into lead in a steak, and my lead bullets are cheap and kill quickly. I also worry that pushing away from lead is helping the anti gunners kill the hunting industry. Case and point in California. If it gets to expensive or effective to hunt and shoot people will quit the sport.
Not trying to pee on your parade it's just the reasons I haven't used them. I'm a long time waterfowl Hunter but never had the joy of hunting them with lead. Instead I get poor steel performance, or pay 3 dollars a shot for premium tungsten. I know a lot of guys that hung up the shotgun for that reason. The fewer old timers you have in the sport you have less recruits to hunting. Most of the time us younger guys are chasing the trophy while the older generations realize the importance of the next generation coming along. I've gotten my brother's and my children involved. But I haven't matched the efforts of the ones that came before me.
My money hasn't gone to supporting monolithic bullets because of it. I will jump off that soap box now. Thanks for listening.
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  #5  
Old 04-03-2018, 06:47 PM
rickiesrevenge rickiesrevenge is offline
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By far the majority of the bullets I shoot are leaded. Probably 99.9%. I've only got a few boxes of copper bullets. Mostly wanted to try them for a few reasons. First was the came highly recommended by a guy who shoots crop damage deer. His results were impressive to say the least. He shoots more deer in a normal year than most guys would shoot in several lifetimes. Second was they claim expansion well below what the leaded bullets can do. Most leaded bullets claim 1800fps as the minimum. A few have said 1600fps. Some of the copper ones will expand even while subsonic. My application is different than most because I'm shooting them in an XP-100 pistol. I don't get nearly the speed that a rifle is capable of and it severely limits the range. Not that I can't hit them further but the traditional bullets may not expand. These do.

And for the record lehigh bullets aren't expensive. They are cheaper than Barnes, Partitions, accubonds and the like. If you compare them to a regular cup core bullet they are more expensive but not much. And they shoot circles around the barnes I've shot in the past. No comparison at all

Aaron
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  #6  
Old 04-04-2018, 05:16 AM
17tbs 17tbs is offline
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Good post Aaron, I have a bag of those Lehigh in .172, hp. They do expand, and Lehigh makes several in .308" that are specifically designed for low velocity. They are definitely worth the scratch.
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Old 04-04-2018, 04:56 PM
rickiesrevenge rickiesrevenge is offline
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Have you shot the 17's? I've looked at them a few times. Never bought any though.

Aaron
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  #8  
Old 04-08-2018, 12:38 AM
17tbs 17tbs is offline
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Default Lehigh in .172"

Ricky,

Yes, I have a bag of the 18gr hp .172" Lehigh. I will say that I don't yet shoot them at game, as I have the GSC to use up, and they are HP of the Chaos design and so are designed for fragmentation I believe. I am using the .172" GSC SP 17gr and 19gr on edible game, so no use yet for the Lehigh, though they are good on paper and do a number on any water filled tissue simulant.

I would not use them for the OP's original purpose as he is looking for a game bullet for eating right up to the bullet hole.
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  #9  
Old 04-15-2018, 04:29 AM
pocketshaver pocketshaver is offline
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I want something that is going to drop an animal, and actually go through it.

People like to tell me .308 and .243 are better then 30-30 with jsp or with monolithic copper, but it taint soo.
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  #10  
Old 04-15-2018, 12:06 PM
Wile E Steve Wile E Steve is offline
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shoot barnes ttsx for deer in my daughters .308 ( 130 grain ) 3100 fps and 140 ttsx in 7mmstw at 3400 fps. More damage than I expected and kill well. I think the tip helps them open up better than the old ones and shoot better with the grooves.
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