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  #31  
Old 02-18-2021, 06:43 PM
B23 B23 is offline
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Kevin Weaver builds quite a few what he calls "20 Bobcat" which is his version of a 20-222AI and I think he's launching the 40gr Berger's around 3800. I have the standard 20-222 and my current load is fairly moderate at 22.5gr H322 and I'm shooting the same bullet 3650. Kevin's 20 Bobcat version kind of gives those little 222 cases a macho look to them.

http://weaverrifles.com/CustomCartri...t/20Bobcat.htm
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  #32  
Old 02-18-2021, 06:47 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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How much difference is there between the Bobcat and P.O.'s 20-222 AI ?
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  #33  
Old 02-18-2021, 07:54 PM
B23 B23 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill K View Post
How much difference is there between the Bobcat and P.O.'s 20-222 AI ?
I don't know, did PO Ackley ever even do a 20-222AI?

I know just about everything that gets "improved" to a 40° shoulder is usually referred to as being "Ackley Improved" but there are lots of cartridges out there that are referred to as being AI'd that Ackley never worked with or even saw before he passed. I have a 338 Lapua Improved it has a 40° shoulder I'm pretty sure Ackley never worked with the 338 Lapua or even saw one but everyone still calls it a 338 Lapua AI, myself included.
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  #34  
Old 02-18-2021, 07:55 PM
Rocklong Rocklong is offline
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.204 ruger gets my vote. Simple and effective on coyote.
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  #35  
Old 02-18-2021, 09:27 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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[quote=B23;296070]I don't know, did PO Ackley ever even do a 20-222AI?

In reading on P.O. Ackley, he did, like he did so many other cartridges.

If I remember right he said the 20-222 and the 257 Roberts were two of his favorite AI rounds.
I have also read where some have taken the 20-222AI and did a little setting back of the shoulder, from what he did, and have claimed it worked ever better then Ackley's.
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  #36  
Old 02-19-2021, 03:01 AM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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With all due respect, PO Ackley never improved any 20 caliber cartridges in his time working with cartridge designs. In his Volume II of the “Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders”, he compiled an extensive list of cartridges – both factory and wildcats - that were recognized by the shooting and wildcat fraternity at the time, and he included those cartridges in a reloading manual of sorts for the various cartridges.

He mentioned two 20 caliber cartridges that had been “worked on” by others in terms of developing the two wild cats. One was the 20-222 Remington and the other was the 5MM-223. Again, he did no improving of either cartridge bur simply gave credit to those who had developed the wildcats.

In his Volume II comments concerning the 20-222 Remington he stated the information as follows:

“The .20 caliber, which falls midway between the .17 and the .22, has not gained much in popularity. The first barrels that we know of were made along about 1947. Then the whole idea died until about 1955 when, Ted Holmes revived the idea, when he necked the .219 Wasp down to .20 caliber. After his business was purchased by the Walker Machine Tool Co., they continued making .20 caliber barrels and bullets.

The only cartridge that has been used to any extent is the .222 Remington necked to .20 caliber. There seems to be little ballistic data available.

Charles Stocking of Hutchinson Minnesota, can furnish a little additional information on the .20 caliber project.”


If PO had worked with the cartridge at all in .20 caliber, he would have shown his own ballistic data in one or possibly both volumes of the Handbook. No such data exists coming from old PO.

In Volume I of the Handbook, he does mention the 222 Rem and the AI cartridge and the 222 Rem Mag and the AI version, but those are both in.22 caliber.

As for the 5MM-223 Remington, again directly quoting the information provided, PO notes that,

“The 5MM is a cartridge which can be described as a .20 calibre. (His spelling). This one was originated by Bob Forker, Handloading Editor of Guns and Ammo magazine. It is the .223 Remington cartridge necked to 5MM. These loads (which are shown in the Handbook – my parenthesis) were furnished by Bob Forker for a XP-100 action with a 22” barrel.”

This is the same cartridge that several people during the internet era have taken ownership of and bragging rights to for “inventing” it as it is now known as the 20 Practical.

As an aside, in my earlier years, roughly 1974-75, I frequently spent time In Salt Lake City, UT on business. As often happened, I had extra time in the afternoons, and a purposeful chase through the SLC phone book one day found me an address and phone number for a Parker Ackley,

I called the number and was greeted by a very crusty old man’s voice who softened as we talked a bit. Eventually he invited me to stop by his place and I spent a very enjoyable afternoon with a very opinionated but informative old man well beyond his prime. However, he was still very alert and offered information freely as I asked my probably silly questions about AI cartridges in his shop.

In his discussion with me, he stated in person what has been in print for years. The 250 Savage AI was the best of the bunch. From that experience, I did not follow his advice, but instead I went with the 257AI in a custom rifle that I had built a few years later. It is a true gem of a shooter. In later years I did add a 250-300 in the AI version, and it too is a great rifle.

If you are interested, this link provides some good PO Ackley information.

https://gundigest.com/wp-content/uploads/GunDigestPOAckley.pdf

Ken Water’s 2 volumes of Pet Loads is another great source for old information on various Wild Cat cartridges. Although they contain no information on .17 or .20 caliber cartridges, they are a gold mine of information.

I am fairly certain that Ackley’s Handbooks are available online today as are Water’s two volumes of Pet Loads. You might try Amazon. I am guessing that they are probably high priced in today’s world. Luckily, I bought both of the gentleman’s works years ago when they were actively in print for very little money, and I have read most of each more than just one time in my adult life.

One last thing. Several years ago, a friend who is truly “up to speed” on Ackley cartridges told me that the list at this Wiki link is full and comprehensive in terms of what old PO actually improved himself. Over the years others have taken his principles and improved various other cartridges and then called them AI cartridges. That may very well be where the 20-222 Rem AI stuff came from.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.O._Ackley

Just some of my experiences.

-BCB
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  #37  
Old 02-19-2021, 09:58 AM
camel camel is offline
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What /\ said, then to throw a spanner in the works there was a company over here in Australia called Sprinter Arms, they also made 20 cal barrels and developed their own version of the 20/222, it was called the 204/222 Sprinter, but because of very few available projectiles it was never a popular cartridge chambering. It is only since the advent of the 204 Ruger that projectiles have been available, which is about the only good thing about the Ruger round.

Woops, forgot to cast my vote, its 20/222 all the way, got one built in 2011, and its still going strong after near on 2000 rounds, I used it mainly for shooting foxes and feral cats while I was professionally shooting rabbits for the meat market.

Last edited by camel; 02-19-2021 at 10:06 AM.
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