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View Poll Results: Should we consider copper solids for maximum effect on large varmints
Do I need a longer barrel? 2 33.33%
Should I use more case capacity? 1 16.67%
Should I go up in bullet weight? 3 50.00%
Should I be using lighter bullets, or sabots ? 3 50.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-08-2010, 11:31 PM
17tbs 17tbs is offline
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Question 17 caliber solid copper hyper velocity the little rifle balistic gel the damages GRISLEY!! the loads
How fast can I push a 17 or 19 grain copper solid through a 21" tubed 17 Fireball /M IV barrel? can I get over 4500 fps?
Does anyone have any experience with hyper-vel solid copper bullets (non hollowpoint)
Does anyone know where I could find such information like shear forces for projectiles like something Varmint Al might know?
If you are on here Al, please help me a bit here I know you and a lot of others here are a lot smarter than me.

Last edited by 17tbs; 11-08-2010 at 11:38 PM.
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Old 11-13-2010, 01:30 AM
trotterlg trotterlg is offline
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I think to get over 4,500 fps you will need to step up to a 17 Remington, or consider your brass a single use item. Larry
A gun is just like a parachute, if you really need one, nothing else will do.
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Old 11-13-2010, 11:02 AM
SDguy605 SDguy605 is offline
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Personally, I would be happy w 3800+ fps. A heavier pill may be desirable. Though you will need to keep bullet length down to accommodate your rate of twist for your barrel.

I would opt for the heaviest bullet that would reliably stabilize using your barrel twist. If you are working with a 1 in 9 twist I doubt you could exceed 25 grains in a all copper and still stabilize.

Why are you wishing to push the velocity 4500 +?

Last edited by SDguy605; 11-13-2010 at 11:06 AM.
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Old 11-13-2010, 05:24 PM
ab_bentley ab_bentley is offline
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I have several boxes of those little solids. I have the 20cal version aswell. I have been waiting for my 20PPC Short to get done before I rev those things up. I would say 4500fps isn't out of the question, I can probably hit 5000pfs with the PPC. What type of grouping are you getting with the Solids? Adam
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Old 11-13-2010, 06:24 PM
The Old Redneck The Old Redneck is offline
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Default Copper solids

Several years back I was playing with some turned solids in subcalibers. I made a cutting tool that looked like 1/2 a bullet long ways and would do a plunge cut against a steady rest on a mini lathe. The bullets were uniform with a semi boat tail base. To see how they worked next to a jacketed bullet
I did the same setup in 17 caliber and ran them through a 17 hornet, 17/223, and 17 Remington. The bullets were about the size of a 25 grain jacketed bullet but ran between 15 and 20 grains. Do not remember exact weight, and can' find one to weigh. They were pointed and aprox. a 6 ojive. Shot with moly
and ran up to around 4000 fps. Groups were 1" to 2" at 100 yards. Unless bone was hit exit holes were small and game hit in the chest area would often crawl or run. Some coyotes were found when buzzards found them. With a hollow point they would probably be much better.
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Old 11-14-2010, 12:24 AM
Tim Anderson Tim Anderson is offline
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I had a couple plastic boxes of 17 cal. solids at one time to try on fox, I never could get them to group. I contacted the guy that made them and he said I needed to take a 17 cal. pellet and slug the barrel and then send back to him and he would turn the bullets to match the dia. of my 17 cal. barrel.
Problem was the bullets were'nt tight enough to seal the gases when fired. Well I just gave up on them rather than wear out a barrel for a bullet that may never work..
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Old 02-10-2011, 07:30 PM
steelshooting steelshooting is offline
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Default .17 Hyper velocity 4,000 fps + = Hydraulic jelly

These urls will take you to articles about P.O.Ackley, solid copper projectiles, effects on armor plate and shoulder bones.
Cajun Blake10-22-2009, 09:26 PM
Here are 2 great reads that I copy/paste to detail PO Ackley's findings.

If you are a reloader and don't have his 2 Vol set of books , I suggest you get it b

article 1 :
P.O. Ackley, the godfather of American ballisticians, forgot more than most of us will ever know about bullet performance. Many years ago, I read his double volume “Handbook for Shooters & Reloaders.” When I turned to his chapter entitled “Killing Power” in Volume I, I fully expected a treatise on why .50-caliber bullets are more deadly than .49-caliber bullets. However, I was amazed to fine something different – something that Ackley called “shockdown power” rather than “knockdown power.”

His premise is simply that the more speed increases, the more shock increases. And when speed passes the threshold of 4,000 feet per second, a whole new dynamic is created – one that cannot be equaled with lesser speed, no matter how large the bullet.

His classic test, which proved his point, was conducted by shooting bullets into ½-inch-thick steel-armor plate from the frontal area of a U.S. military half-track. At a distance of 30 feet, he shot a .270 Win with 100-grain bullets, a .30-06 with military-issue, solid-steel, armor-piercing bullets, and a .220 Swift with a 48-grain bullet.

The results were astounding. The .270 bullet left a shiny spot on the armor plate and did not penetrate at all. Two shots from the .30-06 armor-piercing bullets left shallow craters .070 and .098 inch respectively. The little .220 Swift bullets consistently burned 3/8-inch diameter holes completely through the ½-inch armor. The results spoke for themselves. Crossing the threshold of hypervelocity created a dynamic as a result of shock that cannot be achieved any other way.

Ackley’s test was done on armor plate, but how does that translate to performance on the flesh and bone of wild animals? Ackley went on to say that if he had to pick only one rifle for hunting North American game, it would be a .220 Swift. If, in Ackley’s day, he had had access to the slower-burning powders of today, he would have been able to propel even larger-diameter bullets at “hyperspeed” – bullets traveling 4,000 or more feet per second at the muzzle. I speculate that he would have chosen a larger-caliber, heavier bullet capable of hyperspeed for his choice North American game rifle.

rest of article (great read) :
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:22 AM
17tbs 17tbs is offline
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Ok ladies and gentlemen, I used a chrony (actually a $100.00 chrony called a chrony) and had an eye opening experience with the 17 and 19 grain .172" gsc solids. I accomplished with 18.5gr. of H4198 a small first. 4767fps. from a 17rem fb 26" barrel. this was the 17gr bullet, the 19 managed 4658 fps. with 18.4gr H4198. Pressure signs were there, but so was some rather nice accuracy, so I'm not here to complain about the lack of match grade accuracy, and still pretty nice ballistics.

Last edited by 17tbs; 03-16-2013 at 03:42 AM. Reason: new data and happiness
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Old 03-15-2013, 03:06 AM
Oleman Oleman is offline
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Default Copper bullets

Use jacketed lead HP's and get performance. Copper way over penatrates on varmints.
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:44 AM
17tbs 17tbs is offline
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sorry, my varmints are in the tough category, and so warrant the use of a tough bullet, wild pig and javalina are pretty tough.
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17 & 19 grn copper, cnc copper solid, hypervelocity

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