Fire Forming - 80% Mthod (Cream of Wheat)

[SEM]

Jeff, I tried 204 cases and gave up also gave up on buying 222 mag brass, I am one of the beat your head against the wall people, make it more funner that way, The cases look more intimidating side by side

[Oso Polaris]

Glad to hear that I'm not the only person who likes pushing rocks uphill.

I gave up on Lapua brass because I could only achieve a 1.740" case length at best. I found enough volume of new Lake City brass, which was closer to SAMI Spec that i could end up with case length of 1.748". I'll use my stash of Lapua .223 brass (once fired) for making some other wildcat like 20VTG or 17-222.

I thought about using the new Starline 223 unformed cases, but it seemed like it might be a PITA. I have enough varmint calibers that I get to resize .223 brass that I thought I'd pass this time doing it for the 6x45AI.

The standard 223AI chamber is 1.760" case length so that a spec .223 Remington would chamber in it. Based on my initial COAL tests, the 6x45AI Reamer was designed assuming a max case length of 1.750".

[Oso Polaris]

Originally Posted by Harold M

Hey, White Bear -
Without the cost-benefit analysis (nice), I used the Cream-of-Wheat method to form cases for my 6mm-30/30. I used 8 grains of bullseye, then filled the remaining volume with the cream-of-wheat and then pressed a plug of paraffin into the mouth of the case --- this was after initial trim and before turning and annealing. Because of the noise issue, I took the rifle and so-loaded cases to the range, where I got some strange looks ... Volume was close enough to final to go directly into production.

Harold

I did get some funny looks that quickly went away once they realized that no projectiles were being blindly sent down range without a person seated behind the rifle.

I brought out my little red plastic rifle cleaning stand and placed the gun in it. I stood beside the rifle facing the bolt/ejector port to make it easier to load/unload and also use can of compressed air to blow out the chamber between shots. The recoil from the partial charge (pistol load) didn't even budge the stand. One can of compressed air (10 oz) was just enough to cover 300 rounds.

I found that I could fire 50 rounds in 20 minutes, which included inspecting each round before loading and after fire forming for defects. Rifle gets about as hot as shooting a 5 shot string...totally reasonable. I cleaned the rifle (patches and brush) every 50 rounds.

[SEM]

The PITA part is deciding what intermediate dies to use on the way and pulling a handle 10 times per case (slight exaggeration), I do this in 250 batches and then walk way long enough to semi forget the PITA part and dummy up and do it again, if you anneal to start with like they suggest ( only helps if you read instructions) it goes good once you figure out the steps, I have 6mm, 257, 6.5mm, 277 and 7mm TCUs, made the 7s first then the 6s now each one left is less work, to bad I did not know about the blank brass before making a ton with 223 brass, any one looking for some ready to shoot TCU cases, no not the blank ones,

[Oso Polaris]

Originally Posted by flyrod

Thanks for posting your process and results. If I were going to form that many cases I think I'd use a hydro die.

I made a bunch of 243AI cases from 308 and 243 brass and they always ended up pretty short. I think a hydro die would've helped some, but I finally switched to 30-06 brass. It was more work but I had a full shoulder before the first firing and the cases ended up at the length I wanted. Plus it's kinda fun to hand someone a case when they ask what you're shooting.

Flyrod & JSH

I thought about Hydro but there was limited material on the process. I watched a Youtube video of some guy forming 6PPC. My impression was that it was more geared to forming cases that require significant resizing. Also, watching the guy pound the mallet hard 4-6 times per case and stopping in the middle of process to top off the water seemed extreme. For that much of a workout I'd rather split wood or paddle my kayak fishing. I've gotten my family accustomed to the sound late at night of the Chargemaster's "beep" and gun/explosions of action movies. My garage is attached to the house so the 5000 "Thwacks" of the heavy mallet to for cases would definitely be added to the list of "Why Dad is Crazy" or wife's list of "Why I need a Divorce"...

[Oso Polaris]

Originally Posted by SEM

The PITA part is deciding what intermediate dies to use on the way and pulling a handle 10 times per case (slight exaggeration), I do this in 250 batches and then walk way long enough to semi forget the PITA part and dummy up and do it again, if you anneal to start with like they suggest ( only helps if you read instructions) it goes good once you figure out the steps, I have 6mm, 257, 6.5mm, 277 and 7mm TCUs, made the 7s first then the 6s now each one left is less work, to bad I did not know about the blank brass before making a ton with 223 brass, any one looking for some ready to shoot TCU cases, no not the blank ones,

Yeah.. sounds like what I thought it would be. When the 300 Blackout first came out I formed 8K cases from .223 cases. I remember pulling the handle 3-4 times for each case to form the shoulder/neck. To this day I throw out Seller & Bellot brass ("SB" headstamp), which would not resize very well (their brass alloy was inelastic).

I'm saving my shoulder for the little varmint rounds. I even decided to take a gamble and buy the Nosler 222 Rem Mag brass.

[Oso Polaris]

I thought I would wrap up this project/process with some photos.

Tool Set for 80% Fire-forming (Cream of Wheat)
The two items above the patches are my modified chopstick that the very pointy end is used to push the 1/4 size folded patch into the case and the rounded rear end to tamp down the cornmeal filler in the case. The other tool is my retro powder measure for approx. 8.0 gr of Bullseye powder.


Fire-forming (80% Method) at range. There is no recoil so no reason to sit behind the rifle. It is much easier to load while standing beside load port.


I did some Direct Fire-forming (live round) so that I would have some fully formed cases so that I could start doing some load development. I even went cheap...using some pulled bullets that came from live rounds that I have found on ground at my local range. I keep a bucket of these that I periodically disassemble with Kinetic hammer in order to safely discard. All shapes and sizes...LOL


Lastly, this is the results of using both the Direct Method (100% Formed) and the 80% Method (Cream of Wheat). As you can see they are both very similar with the case body blown out and shoulder pushed forward. The only real difference is that 80% Formed case has slightly rounded corners and not sharp angles at the shoulder and neck.


Picture Description (left to right)
Case 1 - .223 Remington (for comparison)
Case 2&3 - 100% fire-formed cases using live round to form (Direct Method)
Case 4&5 - unsuccessful 100% fire-formed (Direct Method) with shoulder not formed at all. This was result of the case dimension being out of spec (short), which resulted in the case not properly forming a crush fit at neck/shoulder. Looking at how far back the case started to form a ballooned shoulder there was a lot of slop...I am surprised that it even fired.
Case 6&7 - 80% fire-formed cases using cornmeal / cream of wheat (note: slight roundness to the shoulder as compared to cases 2&3)
Case 8 - .223 Remington (for comparison)

[UTcaller]

I guess I’m just lazy about fireforming. For both my 223AI and my 22-250AI all I did for fireforming was buy 200 .223 Lapua brass and 200 22-250 Lapua brass. Used 25.5 grains of H-335(Max .223 Remington load) and 55 grain bullets(3200 fps)sighted in. Probably 3/4 inch groups. Then went out and shot stuff until the 200 were fire formed.Then tweeked the load a bit until I got the speed and accuracy I wanted then killed more stuff(3400 fps)Lapua brass is awesome and will get you at least 15-20 reloads that’s at least 3000-4000 rounds. Was very simple. Same with my 22-250AI. Loaded max standard 22-250 36.5 grains RL-15 55 grain bullets(3600 fps). 1/2 inch groups. Killed probably 150 Coyotes with the fireforming load. Then changed to 60 grain bullets with RL-15 still 1/2 inch groups but now running 3800 fps. Again didn’t even think about the fireforming process.

Good Hunting Chad

[JSH]

May be me, may be the picture. Looks to me like lines of case stretch where we don’t want it too? Right above the web.

[Oso Polaris]

Originally Posted by JSH

May be me, may be the picture. Looks to me like lines of case stretch where we don’t want it too? Right above the web.

JSH,

Good eyes. This is bulk military brass (lake City 2018) that I bought from Midsouth Shooter Supply (1000 cases for $150ish). I am used to beautiful Lapua brass...I was a bit turned off when I opened the package. However, the price is 15% of cost of Lapua, and I wanted volume. Although it is new brass, I am assuming that because it is military grade the way it was handled and packaged resulted in a lot of superficial scratching. All of the edges on each case are very crisp/sharp and the case mouth has a burr. I guess this is what caused a lot of the scratching as the cases roll around each other. All of this should clean up after steel pin tumbling.

I actually contemplated steel pinning everything before the initial loading just to provide a clean slate. I settled on a more thorough inspection process during fire-forming. I made sure to inspect each case, noting scratches and other surface imperfections, before inserting in chamber. After fire-forming I visually inspected the case to determine if there was any new issues. Regardless of which fire-forming method (Direct Method or 80% Method) that I used, the scratches and other surface imperfection were the same before and after firing. I will add a photo of some sample cases that haven't been used, yet.