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  #11  
Old 04-02-2018, 12:25 AM
pocketshaver pocketshaver is offline
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perhaps you don't quite get the point or purpose of how redundant and useless the designation for .223 Remington and 5.56 actually is.

CIP makes no difference between the two calibers, in fact they only consider 5.56x45 to be the actual caliber and thus load .223 Remington to the same pressure levels.

If a person buys an American made rifle with "only for .223 Remington" marked on the chamber, and uses large amounts of CIP .223 Remington, how can you say the rifle is NOT safe for 5.56x45?

Ill make it easy peasy....

a guy buys a savage bolt action in .223 Remington. purchases and uses oh say 300 rounds of CIP .223 Remington made in Italy. Can you tell me the rifle is not safe with 5.56x45 ammo?
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  #12  
Old 04-02-2018, 12:31 AM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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Default ,223 or is it 5.56

Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketshaver View Post
perhaps you don't quite get the point or purpose of how redundant and useless the designation for .223 Remington and 5.56 actually is.

CIP makes no difference between the two calibers, in fact they only consider 5.56x45 to be the actual caliber and thus load .223 Remington to the same pressure levels.

If a person buys an American made rifle with "only for .223 Remington" marked on the chamber, and uses large amounts of CIP .223 Remington, how can you say the rifle is NOT safe for 5.56x45?

Ill make it easy peasy....

a guy buys a savage bolt action in .223 Remington. purchases and uses oh say 300 rounds of CIP .223 Remington made in Italy. Can you tell me the rifle is not safe with 5.56x45 ammo?
I will repeat this one more time and drop it, you do as you want. I will follow the ammo and rifle makers warnings and instructions. I do have and use both chamberings in a few rifles, some are .223 R and some are 5.56.
Nuff said about this, again you do as you wish. Bill K
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  #13  
Old 04-02-2018, 02:05 AM
Herb in Pa Herb in Pa is offline
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Just someone trying to stir the pot...................
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  #14  
Old 04-02-2018, 06:08 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketshaver View Post
perhaps you don't quite get the point or purpose of how redundant and useless the designation for .223 Remington and 5.56 actually is.

CIP makes no difference between the two calibers, in fact they only consider 5.56x45 to be the actual caliber and thus load .223 Remington to the same pressure levels.

If a person buys an American made rifle with "only for .223 Remington" marked on the chamber, and uses large amounts of CIP .223 Remington, how can you say the rifle is NOT safe for 5.56x45?

Ill make it easy peasy....

a guy buys a savage bolt action in .223 Remington. purchases and uses oh say 300 rounds of CIP .223 Remington made in Italy. Can you tell me the rifle is not safe with 5.56x45 ammo?
Hi pocket....

I'll make it easy peasy even for you. It's the pressures that neither SAAMI nor CIP anticipate or see that makes the difference for a shooter. Granted loads for each are all over the place in terms of pressure, but the rifle throating/lead length and angle can make a huge difference between what is safe in a 223 Rem labeled rifle and one labeled 5.56.

Have fun........... I bet you're the life of most parties.

-BCB
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Yo no creo en santos que orinan.

Be Proactively Safe:

Yesterday I did something that I normally don’t do. I picked up a hitch hiker. After he got into my car, he said to me, “I’m surprised that you picked me up. I could be a serial killer.”

I replied, “I'm not worried because what are the odds of there being two serial killers in the same car at the same time?”

He suddenly got very quiet, and he got out of my car at the next stop light.

Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and just get used to the idea.

Last year I joined a support group for procrastinators. We haven’t met yet.

Why do I have to press one for English when you’re just going to transfer me to someone I can't understand anyway?


HOUSTON STRONG! HOUSTON PROUD!

GOD BLESS TEXAS!


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  #15  
Old 04-02-2018, 07:26 PM
ramos ramos is offline
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Pocketshaver, read the main sentence in BCB's above post carefully.

The pressure generated by a given 5.56 round in a factory 5.56 chamber is not the same pressure that that same round will generate in a factory .223 chamber.

The published pressure figures are based on a cartridge being in the chamber it was intended for. Put it in a different chamber and the known data is no longer applicable. Safe? Not? The answer would be, maybe & maybe.

As others have said, do what you like. Just don't ask for opinions and belittle them.
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  #16  
Old 04-03-2018, 04:19 AM
pocketshaver pocketshaver is offline
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AR companies have admitted to using the 5.56 chamber for guns marked as 5.56 and for those marked only as .223 Remington.


the SAAMi drawings for the official ".223 remington' chamber predate the use of fast twist barrels in .223 and as such are still set up for the original slow twist.

IF the 5.56 can ONLY use the long bullets because of that throat, and .223 Remington comes with those nice long heavy bullets, and companies use those bullets for testing..
How is there even a difference? kind of like debating the merits of "rifle" and "handgun" load data for .357 magnum or .44 magnum...

But I see no one wants to debate the CIP pressure standard versus American saami pressure limits.
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  #17  
Old 04-03-2018, 04:39 AM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketshaver View Post
AR companies have admitted to using the 5.56 chamber for guns marked as 5.56 and for those marked only as .223 Remington.


the SAAMi drawings for the official ".223 remington' chamber predate the use of fast twist barrels in .223 and as such are still set up for the original slow twist.

IF the 5.56 can ONLY use the long bullets because of that throat, and .223 Remington comes with those nice long heavy bullets, and companies use those bullets for testing..
How is there even a difference? kind of like debating the merits of "rifle" and "handgun" load data for .357 magnum or .44 magnum...

But I see no one wants to debate the CIP pressure standard versus American saami pressure limits.


Sometimes rationally debating with certain individuals is kin to pushing a log chain up a steep hill.

-BCB
__________________
Yo no creo en santos que orinan.

Be Proactively Safe:

Yesterday I did something that I normally don’t do. I picked up a hitch hiker. After he got into my car, he said to me, “I’m surprised that you picked me up. I could be a serial killer.”

I replied, “I'm not worried because what are the odds of there being two serial killers in the same car at the same time?”

He suddenly got very quiet, and he got out of my car at the next stop light.

Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and just get used to the idea.

Last year I joined a support group for procrastinators. We haven’t met yet.

Why do I have to press one for English when you’re just going to transfer me to someone I can't understand anyway?


HOUSTON STRONG! HOUSTON PROUD!

GOD BLESS TEXAS!



Last edited by Bayou City Boy; 04-03-2018 at 04:41 AM.
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  #18  
Old 04-03-2018, 04:57 AM
moorepower moorepower is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocketshaver View Post
AR companies have admitted to using the 5.56 chamber for guns marked as 5.56 and for those marked only as .223 Remington.


the SAAMi drawings for the official ".223 remington' chamber predate the use of fast twist barrels in .223 and as such are still set up for the original slow twist.

IF the 5.56 can ONLY use the long bullets because of that throat, and .223 Remington comes with those nice long heavy bullets, and companies use those bullets for testing..
How is there even a difference? kind of like debating the merits of "rifle" and "handgun" load data for .357 magnum or .44 magnum...

But I see no one wants to debate the CIP pressure standard versus American saami pressure limits.
Your barking up the wrong forum. Try the hide or...
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  #19  
Old 04-03-2018, 11:25 AM
csterner csterner is offline
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A wise man once told me when I started loading...

"A loaded cartridge is a little tiny BOMB you put inside the chamber about 2 inches in front of your EYES. Don't do anything STUPID!"

Let that sink in a bit...

Maybe, maybe not...
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  #20  
Old 04-03-2018, 12:37 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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Default ,223 or is it 5.56

Quote:
Originally Posted by csterner View Post
A wise man once told me when I started loading...

"A loaded cartridge is a little tiny BOMB you put inside the chamber about 2 inches in front of your EYES. Don't do anything STUPID!"

Let that sink in a bit...

Maybe, maybe not...
Or the old saying "If you argue with a fool, you only become a fool like them" Sometimes you just have to stop trying and just disregard trying to help or answer this type of person. Bill K
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