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  #21  
Old 01-20-2019, 05:50 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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[quote=Bayou City Boy;277749]I'm betting that after you wear the new barrel out, there will still be folks who will chamber another new 17 Rem barrel for ya'. And so on...........

I would say that would more than likely occur, as I feel the 17 Reminton is far from being a dead cartridge. It has a good place between the 17 fireball and stepping up to a 20 cal.
Brass can be found from High Plains and also Diamond R I believe. It is formed down from 224/5.56 brass, so should work very well for those shooting them. Bill K
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  #22  
Old 01-20-2019, 08:05 PM
cath8r cath8r is offline
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Down here in Southern Ontario canada I know of 3 people I have introduced to the .17 Rem that have fallen in love with it in the last year. Don't stick a fork in it yet!
I wish Remington wouldn't abandon their children like they do ....
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  #23  
Old 01-20-2019, 08:44 PM
JSH JSH is offline
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Other dead cartridges that just won't die, 22 Hornet,41 mag, 45-70 and others.
Huh, I own at least one of each must be a trend.
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  #24  
Old 01-20-2019, 09:09 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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[quote=Bill K;277750]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bayou City Boy View Post
I'm betting that after you wear the new barrel out, there will still be folks who will chamber another new 17 Rem barrel for ya'. And so on...........

I would say that would more than likely occur, as I feel the 17 Reminton is far from being a dead cartridge. It has a good place between the 17 fireball and stepping up to a 20 cal.
Brass can be found from High Plains and also Diamond R I believe. It is formed down from 224/5.56 brass, so should work very well for those shooting them. Bill K
If I was new to the 17 Remington, I'd bite the bullet and pay extra for some Nosler brass that hasn't been "stretched" in the web like some do to create full length 17 Rem brass from 5.56 MM brass. One vendor told me that they "squish" 5.56 MM brass to get to true 17 Rem length. That extra brass has to come from somewhere...... And if you shop a bit and keep on your toes while doing it, original 17 Rem brass can still be found.

If you make your own cases from true parent cartridges, 222 Rem Mag brass is the only true option for the 17 Rem, in spite of what some folks might try to sell as a fact on the internet. The 5.56 case is short by about 40 thousandths of an inch unless you perform "miracles" with it that compare to going to a barber shop and having hair put back on. If 5.56 MM brass is all you have, I'd opt to go 17-223 so the chamber is proper length and the barrel throat is proper so that tiny 17 caliber bullets aren't seated long to reach or approach close to the barrel lands.

-BCB
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Last edited by Bayou City Boy; 01-20-2019 at 09:20 PM.
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  #25  
Old 01-20-2019, 10:05 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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Default .17 Remington is dead

Interesting, 222 mag brass. Always read and heard the 17 Remington was originally just the 223, with the shoulder set back and the neck left a little long, but overall just a little shorter than the original case. Bill K
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  #26  
Old 01-20-2019, 10:11 PM
260Ackley 260Ackley is offline
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I have a fireball now but if I did it again I would do a straight 17-223. Just for ease of components. It may be slower then the 17 remington but I'm all for simplicity. And I dont think a coyote will feel the difference. I like the idea of factory ammo for the 17 remington but I haven't shot factory ammo in 20 years in anything.
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  #27  
Old 01-20-2019, 11:09 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill K View Post
Interesting, 222 mag brass. Always read and heard the 17 Remington was originally just the 223, with the shoulder set back and the neck left a little long, but overall just a little shorter than the original case. Bill K
Proof once again that you shouldn't believe everything that you read. Even though it is an often mis-guided bit of "information" found in print.

This is not new news around here......... In fact, this is a post you made on 09/02/2018 on the topic:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill K View Post
Good point on the shortness of 223/5.56 brass formed into 17 Rem. it will run about .040 to .050 shorter, when first formed, however I found, like others and what the information indicates, that after a couple firings it gains some length and works just fine. Have done so, for a fair number of years now on mine. So when factory, Remington or any others are in short supply, LC brass is plentiful to work with. Just my thoughts. Bill K
If you can get relatively short brass to lengthen 0.040" with just a "couple firings", you should be concerned about web stretching and head space issues with the brass you are using.

In that same thread from 09/2018:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Anderson View Post
[html][Good point on the shortness of 223/5.56 brass formed into 17 Rem. it will run about .040 to .050 shorter, when first formed, however I found, like others and what the information indicates, that after a couple firings it gains some length and works just fine. Have done so, for a fair number of years now on mine. So when factory, Remington or any others are in short supply, LC brass is plentiful to work with. Just my thoughts. Bill K/HTML]

Yes Bill you correct. Question is where do you think the extra brass came from? Answer: It came from the webb area of the case and soon enough you will get a case separation.. Also sounds like the other company making the brass is Hydraulically forming the brass which is a good way to form brass but like someone mentioned earlier the brass has to come from somewhere in order to stretch the case to proper size do to being to small/short from the start. As for brass and primer cups keep in mind there is really no bad brass or primer cups, just softer to harder brass so you need to take into account and load accordingly. Example win. would fall into the soft brass where Hornady would fall under the harder brass and rem. some place in between depending on what case size. Also Norma would be close to rem. and Lapua close to Win. in softness. Anyway you got pockets opening up then best to look at what loads you using and not all chambers are equal.

SAAMI OAL of the .223/5.56MM brass is 1.760".

SAAMI OAL of 17 Remington brass is 1.796".

SAAMI OAL length of 222 Rem Mag brass is 1.850".

You can safely trim brass, but if you lengthen it (5.56 MM) to get to something else (17 Rem), the extra length has to come from some place. Necking down brass does cause neck lengthening of a few thousandths of an inch occasionally (from my experience, ~0.004" when necking 223 down to 17) but not 40 thousandths of an inch (0.040") on relatively short brass to begin with.

You have to start with brass that is originally long enough to get you where you're going.

-BCB
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Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and just get used to the idea.

Going keyboard postal over something that you read on the internet is like seeing a pile of dog crap on the sidewalk and choosing to step in it rather than stepping around it.

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  #28  
Old 01-21-2019, 12:17 AM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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Default 17 Reminton is dead

I believe BCB that quote is not mine, but one I quoted from another party and added my thought too.
I ran a 17-223 back in the 60's in a Sako and made all my brass by just necking down 223 brass.
Then the 17 Remington came along and they came out with dies to set back the shoulder and form brass out of the 223 brass which then had the longer neck that the 17 rem has, as compared to the standard 223 brass.
Then some had to trim the neck/length at times.
But again it is a mute point, on how much work a person wants to go to if they choose to make the own 17 rem brass.
Some already have it available to buy, some factory and some formed from 223/5.56 brass.
So it is a open market, you and they can choose to obtain as they wish the brass they need, if they go with the 17 Remington.
End of this thread for me. Bill K
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  #29  
Old 01-21-2019, 01:13 AM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill K View Post
I believe BCB that quote is not mine, but one I quoted from another party and added my thought too.
I ran a 17-223 back in the 60's in a Sako and made all my brass by just necking down 223 brass.
Then the 17 Remington came along and they came out with dies to set back the shoulder and form brass out of the 223 brass which then had the longer neck that the 17 rem has, as compared to the standard 223 brass.
Then some had to trim the neck/length at times.
But again it is a mute point, on how much work a person wants to go to if they choose to make the own 17 rem brass.
Some already have it available to buy, some factory and some formed from 223/5.56 brass.
So it is a open market, you and they can choose to obtain as they wish the brass they need, if they go with the 17 Remington.
End of this thread for me. Bill K
You are correct on what someone decided to make and sell to others in terms of dies, etc. That simply means that some people will try to sell something and other people will buy it.

As for your "non-quote", you made it on 09/02/2018 (09-02-2018, 09:26 AM) in a thread titled "17vrem brass?" started by Xdeano. Your post that I quoted as it appeared/verbatim using the forum quote function is post #11 in the thread. Nothing was deleted to isolate this one thought that you had in your post.

In post #35, (09-04-2018, 06:38 PM) Tim Anderson botched quoting you when he added the information he did that appears as the second quote taken from Xdeano's thread in my above post. I simply quoted him verbatim also using the forum quote feature again as he wrote it in post #35.

As for what anyone else does to get 17 Remington brass, I could care less. I do know however that if I'm ever required to make 17 Remington brass for myself, I won't use 223/5.56MM brass to do it.

-BCB
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I miss mean Tweets, competence, and $1.79 per gallon gasoline.

Yo no creo en santos que orinan.

Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and just get used to the idea.

Going keyboard postal over something that you read on the internet is like seeing a pile of dog crap on the sidewalk and choosing to step in it rather than stepping around it.

If You're Afraid To Offend, You Can't Be Honest - Thomas Paine

Last edited by Bayou City Boy; 01-21-2019 at 02:29 AM. Reason: spelling.............
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  #30  
Old 01-21-2019, 01:26 AM
JSH JSH is offline
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I have 17HH, 17FB and 17 Remington.
My thoughts, for my purpose and intentions, the 17HH and 17FB will both be run with 20 grain bullets. The 17 Remington will run with 25 and heavier.

The CZ while a good platform and a decent factory rifle still left me wanting. After a bit of reading and visiting I ordered a new Shilen barrel with zero free bore in 17 Remington. The CZ may or may not go down the road, depends on if this new barrel performs up to my expectations. I did a little looking and came up with a goodly supply of brass, some factory and some from 204 Ruger. Enough so it should wear the barrel out before I am clear out of proper 17 Remington brass

I really like the 17 Hornet, but if I can get minute of prairie dog out to 200 with a 17Bmag I will go that way. No muss no fuss rimfire.

The 17 Fireball I basically tripped over while perusing several sites I frequent. Snagged it up, spun it on an action (Savage) and ran with it. (Actually it is on the stock and action I am going to use for the 17 Remington. Choate stocking filled the grip and butt with #8 shot. The 17 Remington barrel that is coming is a straight no taper barrel, hope the rig will weigh about 25-30 pounds when done) It has impressed me from the get go. So much so it is what I consider a boring rig as it was so simple to get it to shoot and shoot excellent. A lot better cartridge than I thought it was going to be, I have future plans for 20 using the 221 brass.

From what I think I know now and I was to start all over from scratch, I would go with a 17-223 just because of brass. Or just go to a 17-204. No change to either on necks or shoulder angle.

Dead, I think not as I seem to have seen more 17 Remington's in the past year or so than I ever have, new and older. Not because I was looking for them, just that I became more aware of them.
Jeff
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