Current 17 hm2 quality

[17tbs]

Still over priced. Back up to $7.68

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/11...-max-box-of-50

[moorepower]

Originally Posted by Double D

Because Ruger and Remington could not make there semi autos work with it.
Or more than likely make it work in Ruger's case, would not make it work.

Both companies lost money trying to use their existing platforms for the 17HM2.

Incredible cartridge in a Martini. Easy to fit. Slip in a 17 cal liner, chamber and go hunting.

It was designed as a bolt action only round. The mfgs. were told it would not work in a semi auto, yet most built and sold, and bought them back. I still have an unfired Marlin 917 stainless laminated rifle, but had sold off all of my Eley ammo. I bought a brick of the Hornady a little while ago for 59.99 a brick to try someday, possibly. If it had came out before the .17 HMR, they would have sold a ton of rifles, but not many wanted to go down in velocity. It was a great idea but all the semi autos blowing up doomed it.

[17tbs]

Yep, they should have never tried to convert a semi 22lr or semi 22WMR to the 17. Until it gets to about $5.60/50 it is not making sense compared to my 17VHA that gives me complete flexibility. The bother to handload really is no bother for me as I don't need hundreds of rounds ready to ward off a frontal gopher assault. It seems that gophers are getting very successful with a political lobby effort in Washington State. Next we will hear that they joined the NRA.

Then there is this from back in 2016.
https://www.wethegoverned.com/thurst...ew-homeowners/



The Thurston County Commissioners in collusion with the US Fish and Wildlife Service have created a novel method of extracting additional tax dollars from prospective new homeowners in Washington State. According to public documents, Thurston County staff has proposed a new gopher tax, up to $42,000 for new homeowners who might consider building a home on or near land that might be inhabited by a rodent called the Mazama Pocket Gopher. This gopher tax (called “mitigation” in planner-speak) would be in addition to any other fees, permits, taxes, or other costs that might be imposed on the construction of a new home in Thurston County, Washington. For direct links to the concept files written and presented by Thurston County planning staff go here and here.

The $42,000 gopher tax is likely to become law later this year. Two of the three Commissioners (Sandra Romero and Cathy Wolfe) have been supportive of the plan and the process for many years now. In addition, the Thurston County Planning Department has been largely controlled by the US Fish & Wildlife Service for years – many of the county employees are entirely subsidized by USFWS grant money. This has been a concern of property rights advocates for many years because local county staff won’t question their orders from USFWS when their jobs depend on grant dollars from that federal agency.

Another aspect of the gopher tax that has local observers concerned is the current plan for much of this money to be transferred to an out-of-state nonprofit organization. Some of these gopher tax monies would stay in Thurston County, but it appears that after insiders get their cut, most of these funds would be sent to an out-of-state organization to manage local taxpayer-purchased land that could be set aside as bonus pocket gopher habitat.

The Pocket Gopher – Endangered Animal or Convenient Excuse?

The Thurston County Mazama pocket gopher was listed as a threatened species by the USFWS in April, 2014. The listing process was controversial, and generated a lot of local citizen backlash as well as open ridicule by rural Thurston County residents directed at the Commissioners, USFWS, and others who championed the original listing process. Most casual observers could see that something was very wrong in Thurston County.

Protesting pocket gopher listing
A pirate might know it is stealing, but Thurston County calls it a tax or a “fee.” It is all about the money.
Pocket gophers are considered pest rodents throughout most of the United States where they live. They are prolific and resilient creatures, often found in areas that have been heavily disturbed by agriculture or forestry efforts.

In fact, the two largest concentrations of pocket gophers in Thurston County were found at the Olympia Airport and the surrounding industrial park and at the nearby Fort Lewis Firing Range. Interestingly, the very gophers who USFWS claims are threatened, thrive in the middle of the artillery impact range on a piece of land that has been repeatedly pulverized, destroyed, and burned for most of a century. Now, both USFWS and the Thurston County planning department argue that building a home on 5 acres will so harm the gophers that a prospective homeowner must pay $42,000 for permission to apply for a home – maybe.

Few observers accuse the USFWS of staying true to science or the facts when it comes to listing endangered species. On the east side of Washington State, USFWS attempted to list the “White Bluffs Bladder Pod” as an endangered species certain that this plant was so rare that it justified land restrictions. However, a local agricultural organization took samples of the “endangered” plant, conducted DNA tests, and determined that it was a very common weed found in many Western States. USFWS still plans to list the plant as endangered regardless of the truth or science. This wouldn’t be the first time USFWS has listed an animal on the Endangered Species list that wasn’t endangered. In some cases, the listed animals haven’t even been proven to exist.

The pocket gopher listing process has become just as silly. No USFWS employee is willing to say how many of these endangered pocket gophers actually exist. In fact, they tend to become angry if anyone dares ask. Partly, this is because past population counts have proven to be wildly inaccurate. Another reason government staff requires forced ignorance of the gopher population numbers is that it would lead to a logical question which they also refuse to answer – how many gophers do you need for them to no longer be considered threatened? None dare even think these thoughts, at least not if you want the grant gravy train to continue. Solving a real problem has never been the goal.

[Bill K]

They just sit around at night thinking up these crazy things, but then will not call it a tax, will they ? Really crazy. But then again, seem like politicians are just going more stupid each day. Bill K

[17tbs]

Originally Posted by Bill K

They just sit around at night thinking up these crazy things, but then will not call it a tax, will they ? Really crazy. But then again, seem like politicians are just going more stupid each day. Bill K

I would call it what it is, not a tax, but a deterrent to development, which I assume was the aim.

Otherwise call it what it is, a tax on the privilege of living with Pocket Gophers, or out and out theft.

I wonder if it ever went into effect, crazy as it sounds, I can't see it happening.