Remington 6.5 vs 7.5 Primers (from the horses mouth)

[Screaminweasil]

Rick, I don't doubt there is some science there I just don't understand.



I also think I found the images you were referring to.........


http://www.6mmbr.com/PrimerPix.html


According to those 2005 copy righted photos, sure looks like the 7.5 primer is a hot one


Too bad he didn't have pics of the CCI 450 and Remington 6.5


Anyway, it wouldn't surprise me if Remington is "full of it", or if the response I got was from somebody who didn't know what they were talking about.



All I know for sure is..........with my Lil Gun load in my 1885 Hornet, using Remington 7.5 primers vs CCI 500 small pistol, the accuracy and velocity is essentially the same. More data will have to be collected, but in my initial velocity and group testing, this is fact.

I will say, the 7.5 primer eliminated the "problem" I was trying to eliminate in the first place, which was primer flow/scalping.

[Tim Anderson]

It's obvious that different primers have more "strength" than others. I don't need to perform a primer only test to convince me of that. What I'm not convinced of is primers pushing bullets out of case necks before powder ignition, or "complete ignition". Guess I don't really care, either way, as long as accuracy and velocity standard deviations are what I consider acceptable.

You see Grass-hopper that's all part of finding and making that perfect load they all go hand in hand. You have a group that's say a little large in dia. you can shrink it down by switching to another primer. Depending on powder, burn rate, cartridge size, bullet weight ect. you just have to try another type or brand and see if it helps or makes it worse. I load for 4-5 17 rem.s and not all of them use the same primer or even same powder so you have to mess around a little and find what works.. And as for your search for that magical rifle that shoots one ragged hole good luck, you'll have the barrel warn out by the time you find what you looking for.

[Tim Anderson]

And just FYI Hornady, Sierra and other Manufactures have people hired to answer the phone and help with any questions you have but keep in mind there knowledge can be limited and not etched in stone.

[Bayou City Boy]

Originally Posted by Tim Anderson

And just FYI Hornady, Sierra and other Manufactures have people hired to answer the phone and help with any questions you have but keep in mind there knowledge can be limited and not etched in stone.

I've had two Hornady "experts" give me answers that were 360 degrees apart on the same question on two consecutive days. I'd mention what the question was, but when I did that I was encouraged by a poster here to get marriage counseling, religious training, and to apologize to my kids for being a bad father.

Whoops...!! I just noticed that I also used the word "Hornady" in my response just above this sentence. That word was a factor in my poor ill-conceived life being made apparent to me also.

Austin, from my experience, you made a good choice going to the 71/2 primer. JMO.................

-BCB

[Screaminweasil]

Originally Posted by Tim Anderson

It's obvious that different primers have more "strength" than others. I don't need to perform a primer only test to convince me of that. What I'm not convinced of is primers pushing bullets out of case necks before powder ignition, or "complete ignition". Guess I don't really care, either way, as long as accuracy and velocity standard deviations are what I consider acceptable.

You see Grass-hopper that's all part of finding and making that perfect load they all go hand in hand. You have a group that's say a little large in dia. you can shrink it down by switching to another primer. Depending on powder, burn rate, cartridge size, bullet weight ect. you just have to try another type or brand and see if it helps or makes it worse. I load for 4-5 17 rem.s and not all of them use the same primer or even same powder so you have to mess around a little and find what works.. And as for your search for that magical rifle that shoots one ragged hole good luck, you'll have the barrel warn out by the time you find what you looking for.

Thanks for your input Tim. I don't disagree that primers can and do make a difference in a load, it's certainly one part of the load equation.


I was merely pointing out the primer flow issue with my 1885 and noting that switching to a "dreaded, "hot" small rifle primer in my 22 hornet made no I'll effect. In fact it remedied the "issue" and in this particular case, made no difference in velocity or accuracy.........again, IN THIS CASE.


Out of curiousity, i emailed Remington to find out what they say about the difference between 6.5 and 7.5 primers. Partly because I couldn't believe the accuracy didn't degrade when I switched to remington 7.5 from CCI 500 small pistol primers. As a very common theme in 22 hornet loading is to strictly use small pistol primers.


That's the only reason for this conversation. To relay what Remington Told me and to hopefully help out another fellow who may be scared to use Remington 7.5's in their hornet to remedy primer flow in single shots, NEF, Contenders, 1885's.........etc.


This rifle, as all of my hornets are "rat smackers"............I'm not seeking benchrest accuracy. Just safe, fast, fun, accurate and explosive (for the rats) loads. I've never been disappointed with a Full Case of Lil Gun and CCI 500 small pistol primers...........never had a desire or need to improve upon 1/2" groups (often much better) for my 22 hornet needs and desires.



The CCI 500 primers are NOT compatible in my 1885 Browning and that is why I ventured down the Remington 7.5 primer road in the first place. I don't need CCI 500 primer shavings falling down into my action and buggering up my firing pin hole, etc.


As far as Remington employees knowledge...........you may be on to something. If I can round up some Remington 6.5 primers tonight...........I'll find out for myself.


More to come with a primer flash test of my own...............

[Screaminweasil]

Originally Posted by Bayou City Boy

I've had two Hornady "experts" give me answers that were 360 degrees apart on the same question on two consecutive days. I'd mention what the question was, but when I did that I was encouraged by a poster here to get marriage counseling, religious training, and to apologize to my kids for being a bad father.

Whoops...!! I just noticed that I also used the word "Hornady" in my response just above this sentence. That word was a factor in my poor ill-conceived life being made apparent to me also.

Austin, from my experience, you made a good choice going to the 71/2 primer. JMO.................

-BCB

I'm one that believes in "trust but confirm"
I guess I'll have to find out for myself if the Remington 7.5 has more flash than the 6.5 I almost can't believe it doesn't.......


If I can round up a box here shortly, I've got a test lined out to see one way or another.

[Bayou City Boy]

Originally Posted by Screaminweasil

I'm one that believes in "trust but confirm"
I guess I'll have to find out for myself if the Remington 7.5 has more flash than the 6.5 I almost can't believe it doesn't.......


If I can round up a box here shortly, I've got a test lined out to see one way or another.

I have no idea or opinion if one is significantly hotter than the other. My comment centered around your low wall issue being solved.

-BCB

[Screaminweasil]

Originally Posted by Bayou City Boy

I have no idea or opinion if one is significantly hotter than the other. My comment centered around your low wall issue being solved.

-BCB

Thanks Hal. I think it has been solved indeed.


I still think it's going to be interesting to see if the Remington rep was full of it.


I'll report back.

[Screaminweasil]

Well. If anyone cares...........I went out to try and find Remington 6.5 primers in this podunk town. None to be found.

I did however, buy some CCI 450 small rifle magnums as I want to try them in my 1885 Hornet. They have a .025" cup thickness such as the Remington 7.5, but with an even harder material used.

Despite not finding any Remington 6.5 primers to compare to Remington 7.5 primers, I wanted to test primer "hotness" anyhow. I resized and primed some 38 special brass and fired it ON VIDEO as "scientifically" as I could, primer only obviously through my snub nose Ruger LCRx. Video is cell phone footage and not worth sharing. However, it did reveal a few things to me and my WIFE who was "witness", and my videographer in this instance.

I tested Remington 7.5, Federal 205, CCI 400, CCI 450 and CCI 500 primers. Test was performed in near darkness, super low light, but enough to see marks on my "test background".

With earplugs on, my wife and I performed the test. Placing the muzzle in a consistent area each time I fired.





Results are as follows: Listed from HOTTEST.....meaning biggest, loudest, furthest flame.

Remington 7.5 .......VERY HOT, LOUDER, traveled over 18"

Federal 205 ......VERY HOT.....2nd Loudest, traveled nearly 18"


CCI 450..........HOT, 3rd loudest, but notably less blast than Rem or Fed. Traveled approximately 12"


CCI 400.........one notch down from 450, traveled around 9"


CCI 500.........less than all, quite a bit less blast than all rifle primers and traveled around 7"


I can't imagine the Remington 6.5 being the SAME as the Rem 7.5 (GOES TO SHOW, YOU CAN'T trust even the manufacturer's to give you correct data)

[Tim Anderson]

And there you go. Now you can match your primer to powder burn rate with fastest being easiest to ignite to slowest and case size as well.