#11
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Gary Max did make some rebated 20 cal
Though the one you have in the picture are cupped base and I wouldn't venture a guess as to why but they seem to be some of the most accurate I've ever shot.
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#12
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I sure am glad that...
... a guy like Dan C., who has every known caliber rifle ever listed, thinks I'm rich. I might have been if I hadn't made friends with the likes of the guys on this forum in addition to being a Cooperholic. The 12 step thing just doesn't work on this one.
I've never tried Max' bullets, but have talked to him several times. Like Clint Starke said, it's a lot of work and the profit level isn't good at all. Alex |
#13
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Max referred to them as cup-based
He had the dies to do the rebated base, but said he believed the cup-base was superior--I would tend to agree, based on what I have seen from them in the field. Laser-beam trajectory Wish I had made a few thousand for myself.
Bob
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The never-ending quest to find something to blow a hole in continues! "...the beginning of the end" Hussein OBombus |
#14
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as a rough guide-what sort of $$ are we talking about here??
And what sort of time investment isrequired to manufacturer?? I'm between jobs right now. Thanks later p |
#15
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The equipment and supplies Max had offered to me totaled around $15,000. It is a time-consuming effort, made more so by his perfectionism. He told me that, once you got the "system" down, a run of 200 could be done in an evening. If one devoted "full-time job" philosophies to it, 1,000 or more/day would seem possible.
Bob
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The never-ending quest to find something to blow a hole in continues! "...the beginning of the end" Hussein OBombus |
#16
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I asked Clint about it some time ago, and if good dies are used, it is possible, to scratch out a nice side income, but then you need shoulder surgery from yanking on a press all day.
I think finding the right market is key. Michael
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When I die I hope my wife doesn't sell my gear for what I told her I paid for it. |
#17
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some figures.
not sure if most know it or not, but my father and I make benchrest bullets, 30 caliber weighing from 112 - 118 grains in weight, using J4 jackets, on Neimi carbide dies. Investment was near $5,000 for dies, presses, equipment, some lead wire, some jackets, and miscellaneous stuff. Prices have gone up some for the equipment, but I am doubtful that we could ever wear out the dies that we have, being carbide.
things to consider, you need to pull the handle on the press 3 times to make a bullet. 1 time to squirt the core, one time to seat the core and one time to point up the bullet. more description and pics of the process are coming, my father will be adding some information to this forum on bullet making, as well we have Randy Robinett as a member here to add his 2 cents (or more if we are lucky). force required to point up a 30 caliber bullet is a lot, as such, we have RockChucker presses, with extended length handles (close to 6" for point up as i recall). 17 caliber or 20 caliber would be a breeze in comparison. There are quite a few steps required to make great bullets, not sure which ones you might cut out to make good bullets that are reasonably priced and perform very well. Expense items: Jackets (j4) and lead wire. Both of these metals have increased in price drastically in the last 2 years. All pricing is by bucket, and 1" .30 caliber jackets are 1,000 per bucket. .17 caliber, typical jacket length for 25 grain bullets is something like 4,000 or 5,000 jackets per bucket. Lead wire is by the pound, so you can see that the price to make a .17 cal bullet would be a lot less than say a .30 caliber bullet, but our bullets would sell for $275.00 per thousand. We don't do it as an income, but more out of satisfaction. i'm not sure what kind of living could be made at it, but would guess that it would need to be a labor of love type deal. |
#18
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I have been hand swaging my own 20 caliber bullets since 2000. Back then there were not a lot of factory offerings - 33 grain Hornady and 36 grain Berger.
My original investment was just over $2K with hardened steel dies, a bullet swaging press, and a lead wire cutter plus lead wire and bullet jackets. The hardened steel dies will supposedly produce @ 200,000 bullets before they become worn beyond tolerance specs. I'm 58, and I don't figure I will make/shoot enough 20 caliber bullets for me to worry about it beyond that point. However, to produce bullets commercially, you would likely need at least one set of carbide steel dies which are infinitely higher priced and are designed to produce significantly larger volumes of bullets over time. If anything broke, you would need a way to have new punches, etc. quickly built, or you would be out of business waiting on parts. That's why I mentioned an extra set of dies might be necessary if you have orders to fill. Or be a good machinist yourself to produce the needed parts. As others have mentioned, it is indeed a labor of love and I can't see how anyone could make a lot of money doing it without a completely automated bullet making process. Doing it one crank of the handle at a time is a very tedious and repetitive process. As Bob mentioned, 1000 per day is probably doable, but you would indeed be tired at the end of the day. I still like making my own bullets even today as I can make a better, more accurate bullet for my own needs than I can buy off the shelf. However, doing it to sell for $25-30 per hundred to other folks would not be worth the effort required, in my estimation. Not to mention the physical problems you'd probably experience from all the repetitive motion involved over time. If you want to make bullets to sell commercialy and to make a decent profit, I would recommend buying an automated high volume machine. Anything less would not be productive if making money is your sole objective. JMO - BCB
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I miss mean Tweets, competence, and $1.79 per gallon gasoline. Yo no creo en santos que orinan. Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and just get used to the idea. Going keyboard postal over something that you read on the internet is like seeing a pile of dog crap on the sidewalk and choosing to step in it rather than stepping around it. If You're Afraid To Offend, You Can't Be Honest - Thomas Paine |
#19
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Max's bullets look like
they're made with jackets from .22 shells. Is that true? I know lots of people do that, but I've never tried it.
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Pappy |
#20
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What do you have to do to get a nice silver tip like that? is that in the bullet swagging process? I have the setup but curious how you did that? Thanks Ryan
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