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  #41  
Old 07-28-2017, 12:37 AM
squirrel_slayer squirrel_slayer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22_boomer View Post
I know some people believe it may be a waste of time to do these In-Between cartridges but I've been trying to find a small cartridge that's a little larger than the 22 Reed Express/22 TCM but smaller than the 22 Fireball. This .223 short has my interest since I would like to do an AR-15 in the cartridge if time allows. I have the 22 Reed Express in an AR and it is a bit more powerful than the 22 TCM which I also have in an AR-15. The already formed brass for the 22TCM has allowed me to shoot that round more but I want to step it up a bit more. I guess I need to get some .223 cartridge case specs and practice my forming and then work on the barrel.

What seems to be a good barrel length and twist for the .223 Short when using bullets out to the length of a 55gr V-max?
if you want to run a 55gr bullet i'd probably step up to the fireball personally. 50gr seems to be the point of dimishing return with the .223 short.

noslers new 53gr varmageddon looks appealing on paper, it has a incredible bc for being a flat base bullet and it's weight (.303 vs .255 of the 55 v-max) I think this bullet would be the sweet spot for this cartridge. I haven't had a chance to buy a box but it's my next bullet on the list to try(well aside from the hornady 55sp and speer 40sp I have already).

one bullet that has suprisingly impressed me is the 40gr armscor jhp. it's showing great accuracy and very impressive terminal performance. i've driven them to 3150 ft/sec with a mere 13gr of lil gun from a 18" barrel. I plan on working up another half to 3/4 grain to find the pressure celing then i'll dial it back to where I get the best accuracy. best thing is it's still pretty impressive with small charges of titegroup and the report is very mild.

as for barrel twist i'd go 1:9 for sure if your wanting to shoot 55's. I punched in the numbers on JBM and it was marginal 1.2xx with a calulated MV of 2750.

using quickload it appears 20" is where velocity gain per inch tapers off. Brian has a 22" barrel but doesn't have a chronograph yet so unsure of his velocities.

Brian (the developer 223short on here) has been working on a V2 variant of the cartridge more aimed at a short distance precision cartridge. we've been bouncing around a few idea's, one thing for certain is there is plenty of room to blow the case out a decent amount (reduce the taper) also feel a 30' shoulder would be a good idea. he was thinking of using the long .222 neck length.

one thing for certain is these little cartridges are a blast. the report is notably quieter and the performance per gr of powder is fantastic! i'm using 45% less powder and getting 90% of the performance. best part is this is from a "short" barrel (18") i'd venture to guess in say a 16" barrel the .223 short and .223 remington would be less than 10% difference in velocity using light bullets. now once you exceed 40gr that gap grows exponentially.

Last edited by squirrel_slayer; 07-28-2017 at 12:40 AM.
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  #42  
Old 07-28-2017, 07:58 AM
223Short 223Short is offline
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Load testing continues, and I am replacing my Savage Axis standard sporter 2lb 12oz barrel 1:12-1:13 with a 16" 1:9 Green Mountain heavy barrel. Larry T in WA is creating the barrel from a blank, and he does excellent barrel work.

In order to up my game for the 223 Short load testing, I added an Accutrigger, exchanged my Caldwell Dead Shot two bag combo for a Caldwell Tack Driver long bag and Wedgie rear support.

I also added over 3lbs weight to the stock to help compensate for the new heavy barrel, and stiffened the forearm.

I am looking for 1/2 MOA at 100 yards with a 30gr-35gr, a 40gr-45gr, and a 50gr-55gr load.

I am looking at a rimmed version for single shot break open rifles based on the 22 Rem Jet case, which fits directly into the v1 die and will not require any case trimming. The trim case length will be close to 1.28", as it is a 357 mag case already necked down for the Jet. The die barely touches the case and the rest is fire forming.

Here are the final case specs. for v2: Min Case Taper .371" and 30º Shoulder, case body may increase to 0.850" as a result of the shoulder change. May get an 11% case capacity increase and will focus on light bullets, however, the extra powder may help the 50g-55g bullets also.

A v1 chamber will be able to be upgraded by just running a v2 finish reamer in to make the slight changes.

A simple v2 finish reamer could

Last edited by 223Short; 10-16-2017 at 03:57 AM. Reason: Grammar/Typos
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  #43  
Old 01-19-2018, 04:44 AM
223Short 223Short is offline
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Default Dies to create the Short

I purchased a custom FL Sizer that I gutted to create a former from CH4D.

I cut off a Lee 221 FB Seater before 22 TCM was available, ditto with a Lee Factory Crimp Die.

Neck sizing has been solved in two ways: A 22 TCM FL Sizer adjusted to size the first 0.179" of the 0.203" neck.

The newest way is thru a development here by Squirrel_Slayer. We can use a standard 223 Rem. Lee Collet Neck Sizer and a specially designed extended case holder that allows the entire case to be inserted all the way into the die to get to the working parts. Lee collet dies are designed differently to other brands and have a lot of working room inside at the shoulder, so that is why it can be done.

After a very long investigation we are purchasing custom 223 Short and 22 Mamba die reamers from PT&G to make our own forming dies to keep the price down for everyone.

Last edited by 223Short; 01-19-2018 at 04:46 AM. Reason: Typos
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  #44  
Old 02-12-2018, 02:38 AM
223Randy 223Randy is offline
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Default 223 short

Hi, new to the site, i have a 223 Short AI -- i had a Mosin Nagant that i had previously sporterized by fitting a Boyd's thumb hole stock, shortened the barrel x 5" and added a muzzle brake - the thing is like shooting a cannon! large report and such. I came across the 223Short info and decided to make the Mosin a 223 Short AI ( i know it sounds dumb, shorten the case then AI) The reason i decided to go that way was because i already owned the 223AI reamer and thought that if i just shorten the depth x .625 the case would fit Ok, brass might last longer, and it does fit great! brass life YTBD. I purchased a GM .22 Cal barrel, threaded it, chambered it and turned it down to a straight .875 bull barrel 21" long
I purchased some brass from 223Short to get me started and then reamed the neck of the chamber to give me .002 clearance with loaded rounds.
I have only fired one round so far and it was 1000% better than the 7.62 x 54r as far as noise and recoil! I have a couple of different loads loaded waiting on better weather to test speed and accuracy.
I think 223Short is onto a real nice round and will probably chamber another barrel for my Stevens 200 once he gets the reamer. He definitely gave life back to an old Mosin Nagant!
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  #45  
Old 02-12-2018, 12:05 PM
squirrel_slayer squirrel_slayer is offline
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Welcome Randy, I'll try and remember to post a picture of your rifle for you here later this evening. looking forward to seeing your results.

I think I forgot to mention this, but I did some measuring the other day with my modified lee collet die and with my fired formed cases I got .261-.262 neck diameters and using the collet die the sized down to .257 so only .004-.005" working of the brass should lead to some excellent case life. We can assume your's will be that much better with that sharp shoulder to keep things in check.

here's a picture of the shell holder I made to use a unmodified (aside from shortening the mandrel) .223 collet die.

Last edited by squirrel_slayer; 02-12-2018 at 12:08 PM.
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  #46  
Old 02-13-2018, 02:07 AM
223Randy 223Randy is offline
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Squirrel,
I did some more fine tuning on the Mosin, i added a band of metal in the nose of the bolt to help with extraction, i now can open the bolt and remove the spent case from the nose and load one in without issue - no working magazine yet, maybe never on this gun - but thats ok, I like it much better as a 223 short than 7.62 x 54r

Everything i have loaded so far measures .257-258 with a bullet seated. My neck is .260 so i have .002-.003 clearance and am running min. head space while fire forming. (1 so far) weather is supposed to be nicer tomorrow, maybe i can setup and shoot out of my barn into a target (short distance only) just to get some initial chrono and preliminary short distance group size. Might line up some water jugs just for the fun of it as well, see how many they
go thru before stopping.

i have some 40g v-max loaded ready to try.

How fast are you loading the armscor 40g bullets? Was wondering about using Unigue behind them? Thoughts?

Randy
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  #47  
Old 02-13-2018, 03:14 AM
squirrel_slayer squirrel_slayer is offline
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fastest i've pushed the armscor bullet has been 3150 thus far. I got 3264 with 40gr v-max's and 13.5gr lil gun.

the 3150 armscor has been to date the most intense kill i've ever seen! I shot a ground squirrel at about 40 yards and wow! all that was left was his torso and his head flew 10-15' from the shot. funniest part was I seen it drop in the distance as I was lowering my rifle. there was a good 3-5' of red mist. I couldn't even make out the organs. it absolutely blew him up.
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  #48  
Old 04-26-2018, 07:21 AM
223Short 223Short is offline
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223 Short Bullet Test Lineup Pic - https://goo.gl/136Xgf
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  #49  
Old 04-26-2018, 01:59 PM
Nor Cal Mikie Nor Cal Mikie is offline
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Well documented. You did good.
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  #50  
Old 07-05-2018, 12:21 AM
223Short 223Short is offline
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Default 223 Short Load Testing Results

I went to my new local range July 1st and tested 6 loads. 9 more loads will be tested 7/5/18.

4 of the 6 achieved ≤0.5 MOA my passing grade.

Cases: Lake City Commercial Once Fired; Primers: CCI No 400 Small Rifle

1 x 0.477 MOA - Pass (40g Arms - TG 5.4g)

1 x 0.455 MOA - Pass (30g BVG - TG 5.2g)

1 x 0.402 MOA - Pass (30g BVG - TG 5.4g)

1 x 0.223 MOA - Pass (50g TNT - TG 4.9g)

2 x > 0.5 MOA - Fail - (36g BVG TG 5.3g; 40g Arms 11.4g LG)

Results - All 50 yards; TG = TiteGroup; LG = L'Il Gun

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...d7&oe=5BE9F0D6

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...3c&oe=5BA85E06

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...0b&oe=5BE5D07C

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...97&oe=5BD7576E
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