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  #21  
Old 04-27-2017, 02:19 AM
gzig5 gzig5 is offline
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Long story but may give some hope....I have a factory Savage CM varmint barrel in .223. I got it last year used and supposedly "low milage". Found that it shot most loads at 1/2" or better when clean and it did very well on my ground squirrel trip last year, eating ~350 rounds in two days. Cleaned lightly after the first day and gave it a good clean when I got home. I shoot moly so I typically am using Kroil, Butch's and then Rem-Clean or JB. Took some effort to get clean but not as bad as the 22-250 barrel that preceded it. Just before I left this year I made the mistake of looking in the bore with the recently acquired Lyman bore scope. My heart sank. The bore had significant radial tool marks in the groove and lands but worse, there are rust pits the entire length starting about 2" in front of the chamber. Throat looked pretty good. No rust came out on the patches so the damage was there before I got the barrel. Nothing I could do because I was leaving in the morning so I ran an oiled patch through and packed it up. Sighted in at my friends place on arrival to zero the scope which has to be removed to fit two rifles in the case. Two foulers and then the two three shot groups to tweak the zero. Each group was two touching with one opening up to 1/4 or 3/8". Good enough for ground squirrels. I made hits out to 425 yards early on when the wind wasn't blowing so hard but later went through spurts were I was missing easy shots at 200. I feared the barrel was badly fouled but started hitting towards the end of the day. Put 330 rounds through it (200 through the .222 Sako in addition) so we decided to put it on paper when we got back to see how bad it was. Three shot group without cleaning was 1/2" c-c at 100. I think that is excellent given the round count and barrel topography. Gave it a decent cleaning with Kroil, Foul-Out, and Rem-clean but not completely clean by any account. Then fired a fouler and a solid 3/8" three shot group. 250 shots through it the next day with excellent results. Total for the two day shoot was 580 rounds through the Savage .223 and 400 through the Hart barrelled .222 Sako. I will try to remember to post some pics of the Savage barrel condition once I get it clean later this week.

Moral of the story is these Savage barrels seem to shoot much better than they should regardless of the tool marks and in my case, pitting from previous neglect. I think the saving grace for this barrel is that the throat and first couple inches aren't badly damaged and if you get that are clean of copper and carbon, you have a chance for success. I have always been a fan of Kroil and JB/Rem-Clean for factory barrels and think they help polish out and knock down the carbuncles. I don't seem to need the abrasives in my Hart and Kreiger barrels which have always cleaned up quickly with little effort. Good luck with your barrel.

Last edited by gzig5; 04-27-2017 at 02:22 AM.
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  #22  
Old 04-27-2017, 03:31 AM
georgeld georgeld is offline
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Here we are again and again!

Can you get some Blue Wonder Gun Cleaner?
Brush full, ten strokes, ten minute break, ten more strokes
and patch clean and no matter what's in it, it'll be to the bare metal.
Then you need to oil it.
Plastic, moly, copper, lead don't matter it's GONE.
Best nasty getter and easiest stuff ever made. Do it outside as it stinks and
it WILL take the finish off to the wood so be careful. Be very sure to oil it good wherever it gets on the metal or it WILL flash rust, it will take the rust off too, then oil it.
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  #23  
Old 04-27-2017, 08:44 AM
kolineman kolineman is offline
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Default Just what works for me....

Patch Out, which is proceeded by 1-3 patches of their Accelator, let to sit for about 20-30 mins, takes care of at least 80+% of anything in the barrel. If after the 2nd process its still not clean, I do the same with Wipe-Out foaming stuff overnight. On all but one gun I've ever cleaned, a 30-378 Wby that had been ABUSED with 110 gr. Vmax loads nearing 4000 ft/sec, its worked remarkable.

I have used this on guns that others had told me were spotless from Montana Extreme, Butchs, Sweets, etc.

This stuff works. If it won't cut it, I say re barrel.
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  #24  
Old 04-27-2017, 02:30 PM
Chuck Miller Chuck Miller is offline
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Default right thing

Your doing it right, don't waste your money or time trying to get it squeaky clean. I shoot mine until I run out of ammo, drag it home and throw it in the cradle. Knock the coal out of the barrel and spend a little time with Butches, couple courses of Sweets and call it done. Like I said earlier the barrel looks like 5 miles of bad road....but shoots. The way I look at it is all that copper is filling in all those tooling marks...you know...smoothing it out.
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  #25  
Old 04-30-2017, 12:51 PM
WyleWD WyleWD is offline
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Cool All this sounds very familiar..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim D View Post
Picked up a USED Savage model 12, in 223. It sports a heavy fluted barrel. Guessing it's spent some time on a dog town.
Been cleaning on it forever.
I've been throwing everything down that bore that I have ! Bronze brushes, Plastic brushes. Patch Out. Rem Bore Cleaner the gritty stuff, CLP, and Slip2000 Carbon killer.

Can't get a clean patch.
I'm going to take it to the range the next nice day and see if I've done anything to improve that one inch group from the last time.

Any advice, except sell it ?

Jim
I was lucky enough to get a factory 223 AND a 6br barrel with a model 12 Savage just like the one you're describing. Bore scoping the barrel gave me the distinct suspicion that no one had ever looked at it before.

Two things have helped possibly salvage the 6br barrel. I cleaned it as well as I could using one of the new chrome plated jags and bore tech eliminator, then gave it 80 strokes of lapping (20 strokes with 4 different patches). Now, using HBN coated bullets I think it is showing promise to be a decent shooter, and is MUCH easier to clean. It has come from an inch and a half down to .4 inch groups at 100yds.

A couple weeks ago a fellow was telling me how bad one of the major custom barrel maker's barrels were and telling us how fantastic Savage barrels shot right out of the box. For me it was one of those "yeah, riiiiight" moments. Savage's barrel making process must have a QC department with a motto of "Ship It". JME. WD
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  #26  
Old 04-30-2017, 03:15 PM
william t. oviatt william t. oviatt is offline
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Several years ago, I had a Sako that I just could not get a clean patch out of...

When the CFE 223 powder came out, I tried it in loads with this rifle....shot about 50 rounds through it and did my cleaning regimen on it afterwards. It finally cleaned up and patched out clean...

Just a suggestion you might try....

Bill
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  #27  
Old 04-30-2017, 07:46 PM
Randy Robinett Randy Robinett is offline
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For carbon, the SLIP 2000 works by submersion, or, plugging the muzzle and standing the rifle upright over-night. Wet patching with this product is ineffective. Via "submersion", it has proven very useful for removing stubborn (what other kind is there) carbon deposits. RG
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  #28  
Old 05-12-2017, 04:41 PM
Jim D Jim D is offline
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First off, I want to thank everyone for their responses !
Obviously I couldn't try them all!
But I think I succeeded. I've not been a big fan of brushes, and bought into chemical cleaners, quite awhile back. I'm back to using both. Nothing I tried, brought out more residue than the brush!
After I was satisfied with the way the patches were coming out, slightly gray, I went for the range.
Here's the first group. I quit with that.

6 shots, the bottom left was the first out of the clean bore, all shot from a benct with bipod.
Load was once fired LC 13 brass, full length sized, flash holes deburred, Ultrasonic cleaned. Tulammo primed(regular primer) 25gr. of IMR 4166, then a 50gr. V-max seated on top.

Thanks again ! You guys are great !

Jim
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  #29  
Old 05-12-2017, 09:06 PM
GrocMax GrocMax is offline
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With the Lyman or other scopes, make sure you run 2 dry patches down, any leftover liquids will look exactly like pitting.
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