5mm/35 SMC

[Thomas Rucker]

Bob:

Wow! I have learned more from you this week than imaginable. I'll remember the Perrier tip for my next SD trip. Good luck shooting.

Tom

[duckman]

Bob:
What were your results with the VVN540 Saturday?

[sicero]

Just curious what chamber pressure is generated. Is there any published loading data out "with pressure testing" on the 5mm X 35? Kenny

[Bulletbob37]

Sorry I din't get to go shooting. My mother had kidney failure and was taken to the Hospital and is now going to have to go into a full time nursing home for a while. I've got to got to Texas and help with the move, so it will be a couple of weeks before I can report on the VV N540 loads.

Sorry,

Bob

[Thomas Rucker]

Bob;
We are certainly sorry to hear about your Mom's condition. My gun's still on order so I will have to wait on your report.

[Thomas Rucker]

Bob:
I meant to ask you if you wax your moly bullets with canuba wax? Also, do you anneal brass? If you do, what method do you use and how often do you do it?

[Bulletbob37]

Tom:

I don't wax my moly coated bullets. I originally didn't have any of the proper wax and then after consulting with several benchrest shooters didn't see any need. I feel that the main purpose of the wax is to keep moly off ones fingers, not a big deal to me.

I don't anneal the Lapua brass while I'm forming it to 5mm/35. I do anneal brass when I get my first split neck in a batch of 50. I anneal by sitting on a 5 gallon pail in a darkened garage with a large coffee can full of water at my feet. I use a propane torch that is set up for soldering i.e. with a pointy flame. I hold the brass in my bare fingers and twirl the brass with the blue part of the flame against the neck. When I just begin to feel heat in my fingers the neck is glowing cherry red and I drop the brass in the water. When you pull the brass out of the water there will be a heat line just below the shoulder - just like military brass or remington brass set up for tropical calibers. Works for me and I haven't had any problems with softening the head of the brass.

Bob

[Bulletbob37]

Finally got to the range today. Conditions were cool, upper 70s, light to no wind and off and on rain. Because it was so overcast and the firing line is covered I had an inordinate amount of trouble getting the cronograph to give readings.
However here is what I got:

Norma 5/35 Brass, CCI br4 primers, 40 grain Moly coated Nosler bullets all strings (groups) are 5 shots

1st string 31.8 grains of VV N540 average velocity 4175 fps group size .140

2nd string 32.0 grains VV N540 aversge velocity 4186 fps group size .330

3d string 32.3 grains VV N540 average velocity 4160 fps group size .763

4 th string 32.5 gr 4230 fps .876

5th string 32.8 gr 4270 fps .669

6th string 33.1 gr 4325 fps .210

The bolt is starting to get a little feel at 33.1 grains and the velocity is higher that I expected to get without pressure signs (indentation of ejector pocket showing on brass head) As the Norma brass is soft and these loads did not have the ejector pocket marks, I feel that these are safe loads.

I have no explaination why the 3d string velocity is lower than the 2nd string.

Velocity with my TAC load 32.8 grains with a 40 grain Nosler loaded in Lapua brass cronographed at 4380 fps. I think I may back off a little.

The suprise of the day was the incredibly small groups I got with Nosler 32 grain bullets w-w primers and 4895 surplus powder 30.7 gr = .211, 31.0 = .239. As I was having trouble with the cronograph (and like a dumb ass didn't have the instruction manual) I don't have any velocity figures for these loads, but you can be sure that I will soon. This is the first satisfactory group that is accurate in my riflr using 32 grain bullets.

Bob

[Thomas Rucker]

Bob:

Looks like you had a very encouraging day! This is some of the first reliable data on the 5mm/35 SMc I've found. Did you try any of your Lapua 6Br formed brass? Do you feel like McPherson that the Tac powder is more temperature sensitive than the VV N540? Also do you believe the claim that Tac has a Copper scavenging agent in it? Your 32 gr/ 4895 data is the best I've seen. McPherson keeps saying the ballistic coefficient of most 32 gr bullets is too low for what we want to do. I think you proved that wrong. That darn cloudy sky still shrouds the mystery of the 32gr load velocity. I don't see a thing wrong with you 32.8 gr Tac load. McPherson had sent me one recommended load with your same setup except using 29-31 gr H322.

I still haven't received my rifle yet so keep us posted on your research. You have to feel like you are on the cutting edge. This thing is beginning to look and act like a 20 yr old blonde in a Corvette.

[Bulletbob37]

Tom:
To answer you questions, yes yesterday was one of those perfect days to shoot. I printed out the instuctions for the Chony and of course it said never have anything like a roof or tree branches between the sensors and the sky. Duh, the thing started working perfectly when I put it out from under the roof (in the rain). I'll have 32 grain 4895 velocity data soon. I'm using the Lapua cases for the TAC 32.8 grain load when I go after Prairie dogs, and use the norma cases for working up loads as they show pressure signs much sooner than the Lapua cases. I'm trying to figure out how to salvage 200 Norma cases with loose primer pockets and ejector hole marks.

I don't have any feeling for TAC being more Temperature sensitive than VV N540. I think that McPherson is overly concerned about temperature sensitivity. While talking to him on the telephone I mentioned WW 748 powder and he went into a tirade about it being too temperature sensitive and too dirty to shoot. I use it as well as vv 133 in my 223 varmint rifle. I've never had any problem with 748 as to either dirtyness or temperature sensitivity and I'm shooting on the prairie when its over a 100 degrees. I don't care what powder you load with, pressures are going to higher when temperatures are higher so test at high temperatures or load a little lower on the powder charge.

Where did you here of copper scavaging with TAC? I haven't found any real difference in copper fouling when using TAC vs other powders.

I'm planning to go varmint shooting in western Kansas Eastern Colorado this coming weekend. I'll let you know the results. I'm taking the 5mm/35, a 222 tight neck and my 223 as well as a 1022. I'm hoping the weather is as good next weekend as it was this weekend.

Thanks for the compliment on being cutting edge. I feel like this cartridge has real potential far beyond what we suspect it has. Cronographing loads that are approach 4400 fps with a 40grain bullet and with the accuracy I'm getting are like passing through the sound barrier. I'll keep you informed and am looking forward to your experiences with the 5mm/35.

Bob