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  #11  
Old 09-30-2020, 02:34 PM
df06 df06 is offline
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Location: Minnesota
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Default 20vt

I see you are preferring the Rem 700 action. Hard to disagree with that. However, a Sako A1 or 461 action works fine for 221fb length cases. I have a 221 in an A1 action, not for sale. And had a 20 VT in same, that I regret selling.
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  #12  
Old 09-30-2020, 04:57 PM
mefizto mefizto is offline
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Greetings all,

thank you once again for all your input. I also had a few private conversations, and as a result, until I change my mind again, I decided to keep the .221 FB and build a 20-222.

Although initially, I was contemplating the VarTarg, I am now not quite convinced, whether it is the correct decision. As I understand it, VarTarg has the following advantages:

Low recoil and report - this is important to me because I am a wimp in regards to both;
Reportedly very accurate, with good range - I have been shooting 10 m air-guns, which are known for accuracy;
Low powder requirement - that means lower cost;
Mostly everybody likes it - though I am not a crowd follower, it has some merit.

But, it has some disadvantages:

Reported difficulty feeding in a repeater, unless a specific action is used - this is a secondary issue, as even Remington made an action with re-positioned ejector to cure the problem;
Cases issues - different cases manufacturers have different tolerances/thicknesses, which is reflected in different reamers (especially regarding neck size), furthermore, being a wildcat, the supply of cases is dubious (see recent production stop by Lapua), and consequent need to re-form from a different case and potential to need turn neck;
Dies are expensive.

Since I have always wanted 222 and, consequently, amassed quite some cases, I started to think about the variants of 20-222. The perceived advantages are as follows:

Arguably low recoil and report. Using a node calculator, a 24-25 inch barrel has three to four nodes, meaning that, at least in theory, one can develop accurate loads for three to four different velocities. Thus one can match the VarTarg on the lower end, but have a faster load if desired.
Accuracy - I would argue, given the regular 222, that this will be at least as good as the VarTarg;
Powder requirement - see first point;
No reported problems with fearing in repeater actions;
Since 222 is very popular in Europe, it is unlikely that cases will become unavailable, furthermore, they are easily re-formed form 223 cases.

Perceived disadvantages:

Need for specialized dies, especially if one went to the 30 deg shoulder. However, several people has indicated that the perceived advantage of the 30 deg shoulder, i.e., less case growth is really small to non-existent, especially if one does not insist on chasing the highest velocity.

Hi Wyoming Drifter,

would you be willing to share the reamer drawing?

Hi Hippy,

can you please clarify the "lot of work"? If one does "plain Jane" 20-222, the only step is neck down, if additionally the neck is shortened as Wyoming Drifter did, there an additional step of trimming. But it could be argued that trimming is done from time to time, so I do not see it as much of a detriment.

Hi morepower,

I was originally considering the VarTarg or 20-221, but I decided against VarTarg as reasoned supra, and I could not find any discussion regarding 20-221 reamer.

Hi df06,

indeed, and a lot of people do have Sako. However, have you compare the prices?

Kindest regards,

M
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  #13  
Old 09-30-2020, 06:41 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: N.E. Kommie Kalifornia
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M; Sounds like a good plan, with all the 222 brass you have. Either one will serve you very well. The 20 VT or 20-222 are top notch shooters. Bill K
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  #14  
Old 09-30-2020, 06:53 PM
df06 df06 is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mefizto View Post
Greetings all,

thank you once again for all your input. I also had a few private conversations, and as a result, until I change my mind again, I decided to keep the .221 FB and build a 20-222.

Although initially, I was contemplating the VarTarg, I am now not quite convinced, whether it is the correct decision. As I understand it, VarTarg has the following advantages:

Low recoil and report - this is important to me because I am a wimp in regards to both;
Reportedly very accurate, with good range - I have been shooting 10 m air-guns, which are known for accuracy;
Low powder requirement - that means lower cost;
Mostly everybody likes it - though I am not a crowd follower, it has some merit.

But, it has some disadvantages:

Reported difficulty feeding in a repeater, unless a specific action is used - this is a secondary issue, as even Remington made an action with re-positioned ejector to cure the problem;
Cases issues - different cases manufacturers have different tolerances/thicknesses, which is reflected in different reamers (especially regarding neck size), furthermore, being a wildcat, the supply of cases is dubious (see recent production stop by Lapua), and consequent need to re-form from a different case and potential to need turn neck;
Dies are expensive.

Since I have always wanted 222 and, consequently, amassed quite some cases, I started to think about the variants of 20-222. The perceived advantages are as follows:

Arguably low recoil and report. Using a node calculator, a 24-25 inch barrel has three to four nodes, meaning that, at least in theory, one can develop accurate loads for three to four different velocities. Thus one can match the VarTarg on the lower end, but have a faster load if desired.
Accuracy - I would argue, given the regular 222, that this will be at least as good as the VarTarg;
Powder requirement - see first point;
No reported problems with fearing in repeater actions;
Since 222 is very popular in Europe, it is unlikely that cases will become unavailable, furthermore, they are easily re-formed form 223 cases.

Perceived disadvantages:

Need for specialized dies, especially if one went to the 30 deg shoulder. However, several people has indicated that the perceived advantage of the 30 deg shoulder, i.e., less case growth is really small to non-existent, especially if one does not insist on chasing the highest velocity.

Hi Wyoming Drifter,

would you be willing to share the reamer drawing?

Hi Hippy,

can you please clarify the "lot of work"? If one does "plain Jane" 20-222, the only step is neck down, if additionally the neck is shortened as Wyoming Drifter did, there an additional step of trimming. But it could be argued that trimming is done from time to time, so I do not see it as much of a detriment.

Hi morepower,

I was originally considering the VarTarg or 20-221, but I decided against VarTarg as reasoned supra, and I could not find any discussion regarding 20-221 reamer.

Hi df06,

indeed, and a lot of people do have Sako. However, have you compare the prices?

Kindest regards,

M
You are right, no longer made Sakos are expensive. I had mine made 15 or so years ago. Prices were not as bad then. Good luck in your pursuit.
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  #15  
Old 09-30-2020, 09:14 PM
TinMan TinMan is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2006
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The CZ527 was available in 221FB also.
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  #16  
Old 09-30-2020, 10:04 PM
mefizto mefizto is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 69
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Hi Bill K,

yep, the case hoarding definitely contributed to the decision. And one of those days, whe I am as rich as some of the people here, , I will also have .222 proper, so this will simplify my "case life."

Hi df06,

ha, ha, that was the time to buy.

Hi TinMan,

could you please elaborate your point?

Kindest regards,

M
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  #17  
Old 10-03-2020, 12:18 AM
woodchk woodchk is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 51
Default Which 20

Quote:
Originally Posted by mefizto View Post
Hi Bill K,

yep, the case hoarding definitely contributed to the decision. And one of those days, whe I am as rich as some of the people here, , I will also have .222 proper, so this will simplify my "case life."

Hi df06,

ha, ha, that was the time to buy.

Hi TinMan,

could you please elaborate your point?

Kindest regards,

M
I have three .20’s all in pistols , I have .20br in a custom BatSV , and .20 Tactical and .20 Vartarg in XP100’s . My first choice would be the Vartarg even though I love all of them .
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  #18  
Old 10-05-2020, 04:44 AM
Wyoming Drifter Wyoming Drifter is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Park County, Wy.
Posts: 70
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I would be happy to share my reamer print. If I knew how that is. How about calling PTG and asking them ? The Cartrige is call "20-Thul" Print #46176.

Looking at my notes, 23.2 grs of X-terminator & 35gr Bergers are giving me 3820fps with a 24" barrel. 1/4" groups w/ my heavy gun using a 2 oz trigger and 35 power Leupold fine cross hair target scope. 8208 & H322 work good in my 3 rifles also. Seems to be a very easy round to make several powder / bullet combinations work. Also finding the cheap 32gr Sierra blitz kings to be super accurate and getting 4000 plus fps. Accurate LT-30 w/ 30gr Bergers are probably my favorite target round but I dont have much of either of those components.

The trim length is 1.610". Norma brass takes a .225 bushing. I would be happy to answer any questions and sorry it took so long to respond.
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  #19  
Old 10-05-2020, 11:32 PM
camel camel is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Western NSW Aust
Posts: 365
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I have been running a 20/222 for about 7 or 8 years now, Zastava Mini Mauser action, Pacnor 1-11 twist barrel, they supplied it to me chambered and threaded, neck is .234, I use a .230 bush, Lapua 222 match brass, no turn fit is great. I have burned through 5 1/2 boxes of 500 count Hornady 32gn Zmax bullets and a small number of other bullets during testing. It will still put 5 shots into just on 1/2 an inch. I like it so much, I got a spare barrel already chambered and threaded sitting waiting till the original one dies, it it ever does. Speed, just north of 3900fps using 22.5gn AR2207, Rem 7 1/2 primers.
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  #20  
Old 10-06-2020, 09:42 PM
mefizto mefizto is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 69
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Hi Wyoming Drifter,

thank you for the information. I believe that that the number for the reamer should suffice for PTG to retrieve it.

Hi camel,

thank you for the information, I am saving everything one I get the rifle together.

Kindest regards,

M
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