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Old 07-14-2019, 01:44 AM
20VarTarg 20VarTarg is offline
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Default Range Report Cooper 38 in 17AH

Some may know that I bought a Cooper 38 chambered in 17AH off this website earlier this year. This is my first and only 17 caliber and when I purchased it I was happier then a pig in poop. Quickly I realized that this little rifle was gonna be picky. I had tried lots of different load combinations with it and they all shot right at or just a little over MOA at 100 yds. But if you know me, that isn't good enough. A couple months ago someone posted on here about crimping the 17HH rounds and gaining not only velocity, but accuracy. So I ordered a crimp die. I finally got around to making up some loads and made it to the range today. I loaded 11 different loads, all groups of 5 and they were all crimped(pretty hard). I shot CFE BLK, N-120, RL-7, and 1680. My CFE BLK loads shot around .8" groups at 100 and the RL-7 loads beat that. My best group was around .685" with 12.1 grains of RL-7. The RL-7 loads were 11.7, 11.9, and 12.1. As the powder charge increased the groups got tighter. I have zero signs of pressure so I will creep up a little more and see if I can get under .5" groups with it. Most say the 1680 is great in this little caliber but it's terrible in my rifle. Almost 1.7" groups in both loads I tested today. I was ready to part ways with this rifle but after today I think she is gonna be a keeper. I will update this once I make it to the range again!
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Old 07-14-2019, 02:00 AM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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I know I don't have to tell you to play safe, pushing the max limits to gain a few more smaller groups can be tricky and dangerous. May show no pressure signs now, but what about when the temps go up and you are shooting another day ? Bill K
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Old 07-14-2019, 02:08 AM
20VarTarg 20VarTarg is offline
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Originally Posted by Bill K View Post
I know I don't have to tell you to play safe, pushing the max limits to gain a few more smaller groups can be tricky and dangerous. May show no pressure signs now, but what about when the temps go up and you are shooting another day ? Bill K
The CFE BLK load right now is still below max for what Hodgdon has published. But it still scares me because I've read reports that it is very finicky with temperature. RL-7 seems to be more stable. I have a CRAZY RL-7 load I use in my Marlin 444 for deer hunting. I shoot the load year round and see zero difference in it. It's so crazy that I won't publish it anywhere.....and most would think I'm crazy. I worked up to that 444 Load and the accuracy is just so good and I have never seen any pressure signs whatsoever with it. I can't find published data anywhere on the RL-7 in 17AH but I think I'm still pretty low. Next range trip I will have to bring the chronograph along and see where I'm at. It was pushing 90 degrees here today and I had no pressure signs. I'm not really chasing velocity, I'm chasing a node for accuracy and I think I am really really close!
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Old 07-14-2019, 04:31 PM
Daryl Daryl is offline
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Perhaps your loads of 1680 were too soft? My rifle with Pac-Nor & the earlier CZ re-chambered bl. both liked 1680.




This is the Pac-Nor bl.

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Old 07-14-2019, 05:40 PM
Intel6 Intel6 is offline
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I had no luck with anything in my Cooper 38 in .17 AH, I could not get anything resembling a group. Finally tried N120 and it solved all my problems.
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Old 07-14-2019, 06:35 PM
Bob Acker Bob Acker is offline
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A little more information would be helpful in solving the problem. More particularly what type of bullet, primer, and weight of the powder charge are you using? There is a lot of info on this forum regarding the 17 AH and in most instances the powders of choice are N120 and 1680. Recently I have been using 4227 with the 15.5 NTX non-lead bullets with really good results. PO Ackley in his early work used both 4198 and 4227. However, I were you I would not stray to far away from 1680 or N120 it gets just to confusing. And, If you can't get either one to shoot in a Cooper the problem may run a little deeper than finding the proper load.
Again, a little more info would be helpful.
Bob
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Old 07-14-2019, 06:52 PM
Screaminweasil Screaminweasil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 20VarTarg View Post
Some may know that I bought a Cooper 38 chambered in 17AH off this website earlier this year. This is my first and only 17 caliber and when I purchased it I was happier then a pig in poop. Quickly I realized that this little rifle was gonna be picky. I had tried lots of different load combinations with it and they all shot right at or just a little over MOA at 100 yds. But if you know me, that isn't good enough. A couple months ago someone posted on here about crimping the 17HH rounds and gaining not only velocity, but accuracy. So I ordered a crimp die. I finally got around to making up some loads and made it to the range today. I loaded 11 different loads, all groups of 5 and they were all crimped(pretty hard). I shot CFE BLK, N-120, RL-7, and 1680. My CFE BLK loads shot around .8" groups at 100 and the RL-7 loads beat that. My best group was around .685" with 12.1 grains of RL-7. The RL-7 loads were 11.7, 11.9, and 12.1. As the powder charge increased the groups got tighter. I have zero signs of pressure so I will creep up a little more and see if I can get under .5" groups with it. Most say the 1680 is great in this little caliber but it's terrible in my rifle. Almost 1.7" groups in both loads I tested today. I was ready to part ways with this rifle but after today I think she is gonna be a keeper. I will update this once I make it to the range again!



Wher'd you get the rifle? What is it's history? There is a reason that someone sold it, could have nothing to do with accuracy, then again, it could be the sole reason you ended up with it.


I'd be pissed if I had a cooper that I was struggling to get to shoot better than MOA.
Sounds like you might be on the right track though, so keep us updated to how consistent your accuracy is and if you've found magic by increasing your load. That's part of the fun of it. Just be safe out there.
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  #8  
Old 07-14-2019, 08:47 PM
20VarTarg 20VarTarg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daryl View Post
Perhaps your loads of 1680 were too soft? My rifle with Pac-Nor & the earlier CZ re-chambered bl. both liked 1680.




This is the Pac-Nor bl.

I was above those loads of 1680. Still no Pressure Signs but I mean they were flat terrible groups. As far as the bullet I'm using, its a 20 grain V-Max. All powder charges were from mid range on up to just below max. However I'm showing zero pressure signs in any of the loads. Partly because at 1.887 COAL I'm still not in the lands of the rifle. Some think it may be a chambering issue from Cooper, but I'm determined to make it shoot. I'm going to order some Varmint Nightmares and give them a shot but before that I'm going to increase the powder charges in the RL-7 and CFE BLK loads. I have gone to 12.8 grains of CFE BLK and 12.2 grains of RL-7. I think 12.5 or above on the RL-7 will be the sweet spot.
Also, I purchased the gun off this site....seller had only put 42 rounds through the rifle. It was a good deal so I bought it. You can't get the Model 38 anymore and I am in all out hoarding mode. I now own 3 and will probably be buying more before the end of the year.
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  #9  
Old 07-14-2019, 08:52 PM
20VarTarg 20VarTarg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Acker View Post
A little more information would be helpful in solving the problem. More particularly what type of bullet, primer, and weight of the powder charge are you using? There is a lot of info on this forum regarding the 17 AH and in most instances the powders of choice are N120 and 1680. Recently I have been using 4227 with the 15.5 NTX non-lead bullets with really good results. PO Ackley in his early work used both 4198 and 4227. However, I were you I would not stray to far away from 1680 or N120 it gets just to confusing. And, If you can't get either one to shoot in a Cooper the problem may run a little deeper than finding the proper load.
Again, a little more info would be helpful.
Bob
Bob, I have used both CCI BR4 Primers and Remington 7 1/2's. In all loads I've shot the CCI BR4's are more consistent. The bullet is a 20 VMax. I tested N-120 from 11.7-11.9 grains. CFE BLK from 12.5-12.8 grains, RL-7 from 11.7-12.1 grains, and 1680 from 12-12.4 grains.
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  #10  
Old 07-14-2019, 11:09 PM
JSH JSH is offline
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Case full of 4198 and stuff a v max on top of it.
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