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  #11  
Old 10-14-2020, 04:14 PM
platapus platapus is offline
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Originally Posted by TinMan View Post
Interesting discussion. I have always just stuck with five shot groups and chronograph strings. I have had several statistics courses over the years, and five shot groups seemed about right, depending on the precision needed. For some critical precision machining operations I have seen samples of 15 used.
For years, this was my routine. Keep in mind, all of my rifles have match grade barrels and either custom actions or trued actions bedded or in a chassis. After market triggers of course.

.5 gr charge increments, 5 shot groups, .015 off the lands looking for the best group at 100 yards.

.05 seating depth test seating out, from the lands again 5 shot groups, trying shrink groups.

Some rifles with this process worked okay, others not so much.

From the chronograph data provided above, the SD/ES numbers are either tight or way off.

In the small calibers, an SD of 15 was acceptable to me, I have never gotten them lower until now. The larger calibers and even magnums, achieving an SD of 10 or less is very common for me.
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  #12  
Old 10-14-2020, 09:43 PM
TinMan TinMan is offline
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I am usually happy with SD of 20 for any of my rifles which are varmint rifles, not BR rigs. Also, doing all the right brass prep works pays off also.

Last edited by TinMan; 10-14-2020 at 09:43 PM. Reason: typo
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  #13  
Old 12-03-2020, 02:09 AM
mule mule is offline
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Originally Posted by platapus View Post
I posted this on another site and am sharing it here as well. I hope it helps someone.

I've had a few .204s, which started my admiration of the small calibers. My favorite was an AR with a Shilen barrel I built to shoot the the 50gr Berger. I sold that rifle with 1k of the Bergers, I kick myself.

On a side note, the only folks to make decent coyote bullets for the 17 and 20 any more are custom bullet makers. Please support them.

IMO, I think the 20 cal with the right bullet is the best bang for your buck for a coyote caliber. Fast,flat, excellent BC, excellent barrel life, and minimal if any pelt damage.

I do not use polymer tipped bullets period for coyotes, to many mixed results. I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't but I won't.

Fast forward and I built a 223 40° Improved in an AR with a Hart barrel shooting the 68gr Hornaday HPBT. Rifle shoots fine but I guess I just never really fell in love with it like the 204.

I have 400ish rounds loaded with the 68gr and when they're shot up, this rifle will get a 20 cal barrel. Yeah, you guessed it, a 20-223 Improved.

The 40° Improved design, you just don't have to trim. Big plus even though I have the equipment to do it.

Being I bought Redding Type S bushing dies, I decided to build a 20-223 Improved. This time in a bolt gun with a steel Proof barrel.

Why go this route over a 204 you might ask? I am not a fan of Hornaday brass whatsoever. This is based on my experience only, in several calibers. Yeah, I know that there are other 204 brass manufacturers but not Lapua. 223 Lapua brass necked down is as consistent as it gets and will last forever. Well not forever but 15+ reloadings with annealing is as good as it gets.

Benchmark is my go to powder for the 20 cal. I learned this testing different powders with my first few 204s. It just works. Other powders tested were Varget, H322, and Ram Shot Big Game.

Fire forming load is 24.5 gr Benchmark shooting the 39gr SBK. Shot half moa right off the bat, consistently. I fire formed 200 rounds and started load development with the 39gr SBK for pd's, and the 40gr BiB for coyotes.

*Disclaimer*- charge weights listed are for MY rifle! Do your own workup! I am sharing this because there just wasn't this type of data out there for me and hope it will help someone with similar setups. I did reach out to several folks I found who were great in sharing data.

Both bullets were tested 24.7gr-26.5gr Benchmark in .2gr increments, 3 rounds each and shot over a Magneto Speed 3 chronograph. I didn't see any pressure signs. Primers all looked good and no bolt swipes.

39gr SBK

24.7 3531 3554 3559 SD- 14.9 ES- 58
24.9 3554 3576 3561 SD- 16 ES- 32
25.1 3649 3523 3638 SD- 13 ES- 26 Chose this one obviously
25.3 3654 3623 3623 SD- 17.8 ES- 31 Close second
25.5 3720 3703 3654 SD- 34.2 ES- 41
25.7 3703 3753 3687 SD- 34.4 ES- 55
25.9 3736 3787 3720 SD- 35 ES- 67
26.1 3822 3822 3736 SD- 49.6 ES- 86
26.3 3858 3787 3822 SD- 35.4 ES- 71
26.5 3858 3805 3858 SD- 30.5 ES- 53

40gr BiB

24.7 3502 3427 3478 SD- 38.3 ES- 75
24.9 3470 3442 3506 SD- 32 ES- 64
25,1 3520 3481 3546 SD- 32.7 ES- 65
25.3 3601 3551 3509 SD- 46 ES- 92
25.5 3553 3608 3605 SD- 30.9 ES- 55
25.7 3652 3635 3611 SD- 20.6 ES- 41
25.9 3702 3608 3651 SD- 26.2 ES- 49
26.1 3702 3689 3679 SD- 11.5 ES- 23. Chose this one obviously
26.3 3679 3663 3703 SD- 20.1 ES- 40
26.5 3682 3757 3748 SD- 40.9 ES- 75

Notice there is a full grain difference between the two bullets. It's all harmonics.

I haven't made it back out to complete the seating depth test. It will go as follows and I will update the thread with the results.

39gr SBK- 1.927-1.900 BTO 3 rounds each in .003 increments at 250 yards or so.


Now for the 17-223 Improved.

I had an Plum Crazy Lower sitting for 10 years that needed used. I found a Lija AR barrel here and picked it it. Easy once again being I had the Redding bushing dies. I gathered the rest of the parts needed and threw it together.

My plan for this one was as light as I could build it shoot a 30gr bullet. I know the 17s are super finicky to load for and did a lot of research on powders. I should have just trusted my gut and went with Benchmark as I'll explain.

I used once fired LC brass sorted by weight and sized them down. 6 steps I belive. It was tedious but I don't mind.

Fire formed with 25gr Hornaday Vmax with 24gr Benchmark. Load shot at moa, nothing special but I wasn't concerned, just wanted them formed.

I originally went with Ram Shot Big Game shooting the Nagle 30gr. 25.5gr-27.7gr in half gr increments. The 27.7 load is what I initially went with but determined I was just in the pressure curve so backed off to 26.6 with an average speed of 3727 fps. Load shot right at moa. I threw out the load development data on the Big Game or I would have posted it. Nothing real consistent or to write home about. High SD's and even higher ES's.

On a whim, I decided to do a charge weight test with Benchmark, man am I glad I did.

I did the exact same charge weights as with the 20-223. 24.7gr-26.5gr, 3 loads each.

30 gr Nagel

24.7 3944 4025 3987 SD- 40.5 ES- 81
24.9 4006 4006 4006 SD- 0 ES- 0 WHAT!!!
25.3 4055 4077

And that is where I stopped. I had a failure to feed on the 3 shot of 25.3 and the bullet stuck in the barrel, powder everywhere. Hate that.

Still have to do the seating depth test with these. I loaded them at 1.937 BTO or 2.25 oal for mag length but obviously a little long if I stuck one in the barrel. I will back off .020 and test 1.953-1.928 BTO in .003 increments.

I hope this helps someone and would be happy to answer any questions.
Those are some very interesting speeds and information on the 20 just out of curiosity why did you not try 4198 or reloader 10x
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  #14  
Old 12-05-2020, 10:34 PM
platapus platapus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mule View Post
Those are some very interesting speeds and information on the 20 just out of curiosity why did you not try 4198 or reloader 10x
I don't have any experience with 4198 or Reloader. I primarliy stick with Hodgdon Extreme powders due to the extreme temp swings where I am.
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  #15  
Old 12-08-2020, 08:45 PM
gundog gundog is offline
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So what was your primer of choice on the 17 load data with Benchmark?

I'm playing with H414 in a 17-223. Best results are with CCI 450 magnum primer at 26.6 grains and some hoarded 30 grain gold Kindler bullets.
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  #16  
Old 12-09-2020, 01:33 PM
platapus platapus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gundog View Post
So what was your primer of choice on the 17 load data with Benchmark?

I'm playing with H414 in a 17-223. Best results are with CCI 450 magnum primer at 26.6 grains and some hoarded 30 grain gold Kindler bullets.
Rem SR 7 1/2
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