.221 FB, 40gr Vmax, AA1680

[NeilA.]

It would be quite interesting to take a bullet to the point of coming apart in mid-flight, slowing it down just enough to hold together, then hitting a gopher.

Maybe after I get a load developed, That can be my new project.

I put some pictures of my son Ian and the rifle on my page but don’t have the ability to post them.

Neil

[Bill K]

Neil. Looks like he is having a very good time. Bill K

[moorepower]

Originally Posted by NeilA.

Hi Daryl,

CCI 400’s

I could only get one out of 15 to flatten on the second firing, so I think I will Measure to the lands, double check headspace and treat it as a brass issue.

At this point I will increase the powder charge .1 at a time, use the fired brass, neck sized only, continue checking for pressure signs and see what happens.

My 9yo son and I are currently shooting <= .4’s at 100 yds with it, so it’s a shooter!

I have to wonder what 7 1/2's or 450's would look like.

[NeilA.]

I’m going to try some 7 1/2’s the next time I fire virgin brass.

I went up to 18.8 gr. Of 1680 today (40gr V-max) no signs of pressure on the primers-twice fired brass. I shot a .245 @ 18.8 gr. 5 shots. I loaded more up at .1 gr. increments so if I can get to the range after work tomorrow, I’ll ramp it up and see what happens.

Bill, it’s really great to have a hobby both Ian and I can enjoy together, especially in an environment that attracts so many admirable people. I worried a bit that his eyesight would be a problem for shooting, but reassured him that he can be as good of a shot as he wants to be. When Jim from Calhoon is in town, he stays with us and has been working with Ian shooting our .22 rifle at the cabin. I have been watching and Ian’s is using these skills and shot about 1/2 inch yesterday with the new rifle. It’s kinda funny, just like Stevo said, most kids just want to shoot AR’s. Same with Ian. He’s on paper at 100 but it’s like he’s in a car accident every time he pulls the trigger.

[moorepower]

What is your velocity with the .221? AR's are way easier to shoot with a lighter trigger.

[NeilA.]

Originally Posted by moorepower

What is your velocity with the .221? AR's are way easier to shoot with a lighter trigger.

I don’t know.. I don’t have a chronograph. I’ll keep ramping up the charge until I see signs of pressure or hit 20.4 grains of 1680(my standard charge in my CZ’s) then decide what to do.

A guy at the range had a LabRadar Doppler Radar chronograph the other day- it looked very nice.. I hope I see him again, I don’t see why he wouldn’t let me take a shot or two next to it.

The AR is actually my shooting buddy’s. He saw how anamored Ian was with it, so it is with us for a while. Maybe if I have extra funds, a new trigger would certainly be an improvement on the gate latch that is currently on it. I could also put my brake on it and that would maybe calm it down a little. I think I’ll take a video, it is funny watching the little guy absorb the recoil. Doesn’t seem to bother him a bit.

[william t. oviatt]

Hey Neil,
I can assure you, the Fireball in it's powder capacity is not the culprit in bullet disintegration. I have just done too many successful rifles like yours to give into that thinking...You have a perfect "critter-gitter", there, and a great accurate rifle that will support a lot of fun shooting!!!
There is just no way, with proper components and workmanship that a Firball can put a 40 grain bullet through what it gets exposed to in cartridges like the 22-250, 22 Nosler and 22 WSSM...Hornady and Nosler will back this up!!!!
The calculations of FPS +RPM will also...have fun and enjoy...let the critics find out eventually for themselves....Kinda "walk a mile in my moccasins" kind of issue....Criticism comes from those with no personal experience in this issue.
Build a few dozen rifles, as I have done, and test them in the field and then one would have some "meat" in this....to continue quoting the same wrong information has been what has kept 22-250s, Hornets, Bees and 222 Rems to be offered in twist rates of 14 & 16. That "world" has been dead for a long time, at least in what bullets are offered now.

I have shared my finding here, on Saubier, at a very large expense to me in time, money and different rifle-builds. I put the required investment into this and I just wish to have the same respect as I have offered this info, to be reflected back.

If someone duplicates the same, I finds I am wrong, so be it! But, until that investment shows up, I stick to my findings and those that have followed, have found the same results.

Whew....got that off my chest, again....

Best to all of your....

Your Friend in Small Caliber Shooting,

Bill

[Daryl]

Originally Posted by NeilA.

It would be quite interesting to take a bullet to the point of coming apart in mid-flight, slowing it down just enough to hold together, then hitting a gopher.

Maybe after I get a load developed, That can be my new project.

I put some pictures of my son Ian and the rifle on my page but don’t have the ability to post them.

Neil

Easier in .22 cal. Use a Blitz or Hornady SX. Both have listed maximums of 3,500fps, however much depends on bore condition and rate of twist.
A 9" twist will have them coming apart, usually long before a 14" twist will effect them.

This is much harder to do with .17cal. I believe. I have driven 20gr. Vmax, which are really soft, to just over 4,500fps yet they continued to print good groups without any jacket leaks, yet.

On the other hand, 45gr. Speer Hornet bullets, the semi-spt. were all leaking lead swirls on the target and about 1 out of 10 would blow up inside 100 meters when driven 4,000fps from a .22-250.

Pretty sure, the SX or Blitz would come apart long before that. I did shoot a deer with that 45gr. Speer at about 100yards, the bullet was coming apart on the surface (I was coyote hunting). It made a 1/2" entry hole. There were no bullet fragments inside the neck, just an empty hole about 2" in diameter inside, no meat in the hole, just a cavity.

The deer was killed outright. I will never attempt such a stunt again - I was young, it, it happened so fast, I, I, I didn't know what I was doing.

[GrocMax]

In all of my small primer calibers a 400 will flatten at the same load that won't touch a 450 or 7 1/2.

[Daryl]

Originally Posted by GrocMax

In all of my small primer calibers a 400 will flatten at the same load that won't touch a 450 or 7 1/2.

Yes- the CCI400's seem quite soft, even compared to Fed 205NM's.