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  #11  
Old 03-16-2020, 01:48 PM
Double D Double D is offline
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Anyone who has been shooting rimfire of any kind is going to have a rim rupture of some sort sooner or later. It happens in my 10-22 and it happens in my 581 and it happens in my Martini's. 17HM2, 17HMR and .22Lr they all will do it once in a while. The 10-22 will fire some times just before it it locks, very disconcerting, blowing the head clear off at times.

You can fire cartridges with split necks with the only ill effects a dirty chamber and thrown shot. Fired often enough though you can gas cut the chamber but one shot isn't going do anything. In school we fired this sort of ammo intentionally so we would know what happens. I have fired some nasty looking stuff.

What the description given by the OP indicates is not one of these case failure ruptures so common in rimfires. He is describing a pressure incident.

Quote:
Had a Remington cartridge not fire.....perfect rim hit with the firing pin

Next cartridge blew, sent pressure down the magazine and actually caused the next cartridge in the magazine to exit the case and spill unburnt power in the magazine! Thanksfully it did not ignite.

"The pressure expanded the magazine to the point that I had to drive it out from the top. The sides were expanded so I disassembled it and using a small hammer, knocked it back into shape.
All that damage is caused by high pressure gas that has been vented down the magazine. Sounds like the CZ gas vent system worked good.

This isn't caused by any split neck. Split necks don't cause pressure failures.

A possible clue as to the problem that would give an investigator a place to look, is that previous round, that did not fire. Save that and send it with the ammo if you are going to contact Remington.

Pressure like this comes from some issue with powder-primer.

An overload is pretty hard to do in bulk loaded case like rimfires. There just is no room in the case.

Wrong powder. I don't mean they used-substituted the wrong powder for the right powder, Rather the powder used had burn characteristics not correct for the cartridge. We do know the early batches of this 17 rimfire ammo was pretty hot and was wrecking semi auto guns. Old conventional blow back semi auto's suffered and Remington even took their new old engineering gun off the Market. Ruger backed off and stuck with.22 as their 17's got beat to death. I think this wrong powder for the cartridge was the problem back then in early days and it appears it has been corrected for now.

Another thing that causes pressure issues is deteriorated powder. This can be caused by powder that is poorly stored or a new powder that simply breaks down faster than it should.

I had to resize these pictures to be able to see them.



Box doesn't show moisture damage. OP is from MA, how is the humidity there?



When a cartridge fires it expands to fit and seal the chamber, then contracts slightly so it can be extracted. A split neck issue would be all sooty, as this would be where the gas escaped-in this case it didn't. This just looks like a split from expansion failure.

The neck looks bulged. When it is normally fired it would be flat. Same for the shoulder. This often seen in pressure failures.



Third picture is not very clear and hard to see anything in detail. There does appear that there is a pinhole leak on the shoulder-neck junction.

I don't know the OP or his shooting habits and relying on photographs is not always a good way to analyze. I see some spotting-discoloration on the case. This could be residue from firing. It does bring up the question, could this ammo be ammo that was carried in the pocket in the field and them later put back in the box. That is a great source of moisture contamination.

I don't say anything I wrote above, is the right answer. Just exercising an old mans brain, expressing a different point of view.

My recommendation. Dispose of the remaining ammo and get some new stuff and get back to shooting.
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Last edited by Double D; 03-17-2020 at 04:18 PM.
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  #12  
Old 03-16-2020, 03:08 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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May not be the correct answer Douglas, but it is a very good analogy of what and why this could occur and the fact the it has in the past. Bill K
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  #13  
Old 03-16-2020, 05:47 PM
moorepower moorepower is offline
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A split neck will allow the powder to breath which we all know alters the burn characteristics of powder. I sure would not use powder that was stored with it's lib loose or off, esp LilGun. More typical is a squib load. Either way I would still tell people to inspect their ammo while your loading it.
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  #14  
Old 03-16-2020, 11:58 PM
GLWenzl GLWenzl is offline
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Iím not saying it is right or to do it... but I personally check/inspect every single 17 caliber RF round.

First visually... if I see a crack it goes into a pile and I shoot them in my bolt actions. They shoot good enough for a minute if a PD.

No visual signs of a crack then I do the push test. I hate this test because once the bullet pushes into the case itís a waste. Some ammo like the A17 has enough powder in it that it wonít leak out any powder but I never shoot them for fear if hight pressure.

I agree that the early batches wrecked some auto loader but I thought it was pretty much determined that it wasnít the powder but more that the pressure curve is so steep that there is little room for for error. I know for sure the very early hmr ammo was more consistent therefore able to set an auto loader up to function without error. And thatís why all the auto loaders came out and was shortly recalled because if the inconsistencies.

Iím working towards an another us to loader HMR right now in a 597 and expect another auto loading pistol back from the manufacture any day now.

I think the bottom line is people donít get it. Theyíll go spend $20 for a box of Vmax bullets and think nothing of it. But to spend $10 and a 50 round box of hm2 rim fire ammo is high way robbery... we did it to ourselves but thatís my lowly opinion.

Iím just very grateful the end result wasnít a young shooter being injured. It up to us to help educate to keep them safe.
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  #15  
Old 03-17-2020, 06:43 AM
georgeld georgeld is offline
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Thanks for the pictures Gary.
I have no clue on posting them either.

I've only shot a couple hundred M-2's and less than 10 HMR's.
Never had a problem show up in any of 'em.

Never had anything like these in .22's by the many thousands either.
Not even back in the mid 50's.
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Last edited by georgeld; 03-18-2020 at 05:18 AM. Reason: edit
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  #16  
Old 03-17-2020, 01:55 PM
GLWenzl GLWenzl is offline
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Same here George on the 22 Long rifle’s and on the 17s in a bolt gun. Between me and my three sons we have shot thousands of 17 HM2 and 17 HMR rounds during spring time Prairie dog pup season.

However on a semi automatic it’s a completely different story. And something about it I can’t let go I keep working on LOL
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  #17  
Old 03-19-2020, 06:14 PM
17tbs 17tbs is offline
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Default Head support is incomplete

Here may be part of the problem, a partially supported head.

This is unlike a TC where the head is 100% supported.

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  #18  
Old 03-19-2020, 07:42 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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If that damage to the bolt face was done by the failed rim, it also looks like this bolt face could have had a issue with soft metal too begin with. Sure looks like more was involved than just a failed rim/cartridge.
Could be wrong. BIll K
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  #19  
Old 03-19-2020, 08:13 PM
TinMan TinMan is offline
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As I recall, some of the early failures involved with semi-autos in 17HMR stemmed from very dirty chambers, which made the rounds fire slightly out of battery. Maybe a bit of headspace issues also.
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  #20  
Old 03-20-2020, 12:31 AM
Rbertalotto Rbertalotto is offline
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Thanks for all the comments folks.....I'm sending pictures to Remington before I send the case. This was the second to last round in the box of 50 and all others fired fine except for the one with a solid primer hit but it did not fire.

As stated, this ammo is quite old and might be some of the first ammo released as I was a very early adopter of the 17HMR when it came out.

Stand by for more as I hear back from Remington.
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