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  #1  
Old 05-15-2012, 04:10 PM
Stretch Stretch is offline
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Question 20 VT - neck too small?

(yes, I'm a beginner) Background: last year I worked up a pretty accurate load for fire forming 221FireBall brass. (I liked the accuracy, but prairie dogs did not..)

So now, after getting "addicted" to the 20VT, and more brass prep, I'm working on a load for the fireformed brass. However, I've noticed that when removing the final loaded round from the press, that there's a very TINY amount of copper at the junction of the neck and the seated bullet. (neck IDs and ODs are chamfered)
Used .226 bushing for sizing (same as I did for working up the fire forming loads).
Is this cause for concern?
(During brass prep, nothing has been done to modify the neck wall thickness - ok, I was hoping to not get involved with "all that"! Stop laughing - i already admitted I'm new to this! It's my first "wildcat".. and I love it! But I'd like some guidence on this, if possible. Thanks!)
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Old 05-15-2012, 04:46 PM
AJx AJx is offline
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I used a Sinclair Expander die and 20 cal Mandrel to cure this problem. I put it in one of the stations on my Dillon so it doesn't take any extra time. I am not sure how much the shaved bullet affects accuracy, or if the mandrel aids in keeping a consistent neck tension.
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Old 05-15-2012, 04:46 PM
ramos ramos is offline
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First, a disclaimer. I have never made VT brass. There are several here that have made a LOT of it and I'm sure they will chime in.

If you do not have a VLD (Very Low Drag) inside chamfer tool, get one.

I bet you will be getting in to outside neck turning and annealing. Neither one is all that hard to learn/do.

I agree that shaving bullets when seating should NOT be ignored.
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Old 05-15-2012, 04:51 PM
ab_bentley ab_bentley is offline
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Too much neck tension more than likely or the necks are rough at the mouth. Use a small drill powered socket with steel wool in it to smooth the necks out, it's better than chamfering as it doesn't weaken the mouth.

http://www.varmintal.com/arelo.htm#Neck_Chamfer

Adam
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  #5  
Old 05-15-2012, 05:04 PM
ramos ramos is offline
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Interesting. I still believe a slight chamfer inside is desireable using the VLD tool. Again, SLIGHT chamfer. For the steel wool, I use the finest I can get and like the nut setter. The hex shape keeps the material from spinning. Get one with a magnet in the base and the steel wool won't fall out either!
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  #6  
Old 05-15-2012, 07:36 PM
Stretch Stretch is offline
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Thanks gentlemen - I need to try the steel wool this evening, since I have some super-fine steel wool in the garage. I need to learn more about the expander die and how to go about doing "neck work".

I'm currently using the K&M tool for the inside neck chamfering.

thanks again!
Stretch
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  #7  
Old 05-15-2012, 10:17 PM
Hal Hal is offline
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Stretch

You need to chamfer the case mouth more. Flat base bullets need more chamfer than boat tail bullets.

The I.D. chamfer needs to be large enough to center and guide the base of the bullet into the neck of the case.



Hal

Last edited by Hal; 05-15-2012 at 10:25 PM.
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  #8  
Old 05-15-2012, 10:26 PM
kmullins kmullins is offline
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I had the same problem using a .226" bushing and a standard "rocket" style chamfer tool.

What I ended up going with was a .228" bushing and one of the Custom Reloading Tools VLD style chamfer tools. Along with the steel wool trick, this solved my problems. I'm using standard R-P .221 Fireball brass and a Redding Type-S full length die. This gives me about .002" neck tension using Sierra 32 grain Blitzkings (flat base bullet).

I found for the initial formation of .20 Vartarg brass, the Redding Mach IV form die #1 works great, but for me, it gives too much neck tension. I run virgin .221 Fireball brass through the #1 form die, then expand with the K&M tool and size with the bushing die. I may even go to a .229" bushing for less neck tension (just my preference). Also, I've found that annealing helps immensely with creating equal neck tension and preventing bullet seating problems.

I'm still figuring a lot out about this caliber, but that's my $.02...good luck!

Kyle
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  #9  
Old 05-16-2012, 02:15 AM
dungheap dungheap is offline
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I've been using LC brass for my VT forming, and use a VLD after trimming. Never have had a problem with bullet shaving, and I'm mostly using flat base Varmint Extreme bullets. I don't know whether it really helps or not, but I've gotten into the habit of easing on the handle pressure and raising it ever so slightly when seating bullets. If they're going in right, there's very little resistance on the handle -- and virtually no bullet shaving.

So, the suggestion is -- VLD.
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  #10  
Old 05-16-2012, 02:18 AM
wirelessguy2005 wirelessguy2005 is offline
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I agree with Ramos and Kmullins, a good VLD case mouth chamfer tool would take care of most of the problem you are experiencing. I would start there and see what happens.
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