Saubier.com  



Go Back   Saubier.com > Saubier.com Forums > Small Caliber Discussion Board

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 01-19-2020, 05:21 PM
mefizto mefizto is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 69
Default

Hi GLWenzel,

thank you for the reply, but I am rather puzzled by:

Quote:
You bring up a good question. In the wildcat business it can save you lots of money going with wildcats that are only different in neck diameter and using FL neck sizing dies.
As I wrote, I understand the FL neck sizing. My remaining question is bullet seating. Several people stated using dies for different neck/bullet diameter, which does not make sense to me.

Hi georgeld,

Quote:
These toys need to have some research and discussion before
you just jump into them if you never have before.
Agreed. I am starting with .221 Remington, for which dies are available. Since this will be my first center-fire, I am reading all I can, and in the process I came across the other wildcats. Hence my question is mere curiosity attempt to learn at this stage.

Kindest regards,

M
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-19-2020, 06:27 PM
dungheap dungheap is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Newton, WI
Posts: 1,641
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mefizto View Post



Agreed. I am starting with .221 Remington, for which dies are available. Since this will be my first center-fire, I am reading all I can, and in the process I came across the other wildcats. Hence my question is mere curiosity attempt to learn at this stage.

Kindest regards,

M
-------------------_--------------_-------------__-------------------------
Well, you picked a good one to start out with. I never messed with bullets on the heavier end in mine, but for my part, anything 50 grains or less, it was hard to find a combination that did NOT shoot well. Easy to form cases too, in case you have a hard time finding affordable new ones. JMO
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-19-2020, 07:07 PM
Daryl Daryl is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Prince George, B.C. Canada
Posts: 4,273
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mefizto View Post
Hi GLWenzel,

thank you for the reply, but I am rather puzzled by:

As I wrote, I understand the FL neck sizing. My remaining question is bullet seating. Several people stated using dies for different neck/bullet diameter, which does not make sense to me

M
The difference between a seating die for .224" bullets and .204" bullets is not great enough to warrant absolutely needing a separate die for the wildcat .204 ctg., as long as the body is the same size or smaller than the die was cut for.

In Gerry's post, he mentioned using Hornady dies due to the seating die being usable for a number of different cartridges. For example, the .17 Rem. seater die can be used for any number of wildcats using .222 case length or longer case lengths, in any calibre as long as the seating plunger and internal collar for holding the neck is close enough to the neck of the case being used.

With this in mind, a .17 Hornady Hornet seating die could be used for ALL of the wildcats on that case or longer or fatter as well - as long as the internal collar and seating stem are close enough to the bullet and neck dia. being seated in them. Adjusting the die height in the press for the different ctg. lengths is necessary, of course.
__________________
Daryl
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-19-2020, 11:06 PM
mefizto mefizto is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 69
Default

Hi Daryl,

thank you for the response. It is my understanding that one of the criteria for accuracy is small run-out. So, based on my armchair engineering, it would stand to argue, that since the, e.g., .20 neck is unsupported in the .2 die, should be a problem. But, what do I know.

Can you please amplify the following:

Quote:
. . . as long as the body is the same size or smaller than the die was cut for.
. . .

. . . seater die can be used for any number of wildcats using .222 case length or longer case lengths, . . .
Are these statements not contradictory?

Kindest regards,

M
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-20-2020, 12:48 AM
GLWenzl GLWenzl is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,641
Default

I don’t see Daryl’s statements as contradictory.

Example Daryl gave and the way I understand it is the Hornady 17Rem seater die could be used on any 222, 223, 223 mag wildcat because of the sliding sleeve.

I would probably use a 17 HH seater die on a 17 AH. I have and shoot both but have never inspected to see what difference there may be.
The 17HH may also work with say a 17 mink size cartridge (I do not know for fact just speculation.

Hornady 17 FB seater die could be used with a slightly longer or shorter version.

Plus in my original post I think I mentioned about using say a 22 caliber die (about any flavor) and call the manufacture to purchase 17 cal replacement parts as I did with my Redding 22 BR dies for my 20BR.

Sorry if I’m muddying up the waters lol
__________________
Shoot First... Ask questions later... On Saubier.com
__________________
NRA Lifetime Endowment Member
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-20-2020, 01:05 AM
DAVID DAVID is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 263
Default

Me personally, I shoot nothing but wildcat cartridges.

I make the dies out of 416 stainless, and cut the size die with the same reamer that I use to cut the chamber with, then machine the reamer to accept Redding neck size bushings.

For the bullet seating die, I use Hornady's universal bullet seating dies in the appropriate caliber and length.

Like when I load for my Armadillo line of cartridges that are based off the full length 30-30 case, with .20 caliber being the smallest and 35 caliber being the largest, with all other calibers in between, I can use one size die for ALL cartridges, and just change out to the proper neck bushing.

By using the dies that I make, along with Hornady's bullet seaters, I save well over a thousand $$$ in loading dies.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-20-2020, 03:25 AM
GLWenzl GLWenzl is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,641
Default

I agree with David and it’s like $230 for a custom made 2-die set like Im doing for my 17WS.

That said it’s still even a lot cheaper and easier if you base your wildcat off of a parent case like a 17 or 20 Practical, 17 or 20 BR, 17 or 20 221FB and do on. But then that takes some if the fun out of it.
__________________
Shoot First... Ask questions later... On Saubier.com
__________________
NRA Lifetime Endowment Member
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-20-2020, 06:19 PM
mefizto mefizto is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 69
Default

Hi GLWenzl,

thank you for the reply. I found a cut-out of the Hornady seating die, and I have the false impression that I understand what Daryl and you were trying to convey.

Hi David,

regarding the machining, and looking at the Forster of Redding seating dies using a spring loaded sliding sleeve, would it be possible to machine the sliding sleeve from hardened steel? Since the case has already been resized, it does not seem that the sleeve would have to be further heat treated for hardness. Is it a correct thinking?

Kindest regards,

M
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-20-2020, 06:42 PM
B23 B23 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 781
Default

The sliding sleeve in Redding's Comp seater as well as their Comp bushing die, are not heat treated.

I have a couple wildcats that Redding doesn't make their Comp dies for, but they do the parent case, so I had my smith ream the sliding sleeve to match my "improved" wildcat version of the case.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-20-2020, 06:49 PM
mefizto mefizto is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 69
Default

Hi B23,

thank you for confirming my thinking.

Kindest regards,

M
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.