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  #1  
Old 05-03-2020, 10:42 PM
jawry jawry is offline
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Default Next caliber quandary??

Gday all,

Hope this thread finds you all safe and well.

In a land down under we have faired well on the Covid front - but the economic woes may still be ahead.

Help we with a caliber decision please.

Currently have a Tikka M55 in 222, a Browning A Bolt in 22 Hornet, a Brno model 2 in 22 lr and just about to take possession of another Tikka M55 in 17 Rem.

The 17 Rem was acquired on the basis of turning it into a 6x45 or 6TCU for goats and pigs within sensible ranges (150 max) and having fun plinking rabbits etc as a field carry rifle.

Question - would I just be better off putting on a new barrel in 223 with a 9 or 8 twist and using 60-70 grains in the 223 or will the 6mm genuinely give more ability to handle pigs etc?

The task of forming brass and reloading for a wildcat is not too daunting - but is it really worth the effort if there is no measurable gain?

For the record - I do intend adding a 270/308 or similar at some stage as a dedicated pig rifle.

I’m terrible at making these decisions - it’s really not knowing if 6 mm will provide any real benefit.

Cheers, jawry
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  #2  
Old 05-03-2020, 11:33 PM
Bill K Bill K is offline
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Personally I would go with the 223 and the 1/8 twist. It would handle the pigs just fine, and to my way of thinking, a better all around cartridge for your needs. Bill K
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  #3  
Old 05-03-2020, 11:37 PM
moorepower moorepower is offline
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I thinks the 6X45 would make a dandy round, but if 150yds is all your looking at either will do.
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  #4  
Old 05-04-2020, 05:45 AM
jawry jawry is offline
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Thanks Gentlemen,

Does one cartridge provide any real world advantage that would be noticeable e.g. more ft/lbs of energy, more penetration with the practicable bullet weights?

For the 223 for ‘hunting’ type bullets that appears to be around 50-70 grains and 70-85 in the 6mm.

By virtue of physics - it appears that for the same projectile weight - slightly more velocity is available in the 6mm. This is at the cost of a slight deficit in BC for the 6 - though I doubt either we be of much significance for the ranges involved.

This will be a walk about general purpose rifle with ranges out to 150 (very occasionally a tad more)

I love the idea of a mild 6 - but not if there is no practical real world advantage.

Thanks for listening to my ramblings.
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  #5  
Old 05-04-2020, 10:43 AM
BG17 BG17 is offline
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Default Ok

Not sure if you like Howa rifles but the mini is chambered in 6.5 Grendel and they are lightweight and accurate not to mention well priced
Also it well still fill a gap when you buy a 270\308 class rifle
Have been thinking about one of these myself I think they would have plenty of power for mid range hunting
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  #6  
Old 05-04-2020, 02:18 PM
foxhunter foxhunter is offline
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having owned several 6x45 as well as my friends owning a couple, the 6x45 just seems to hit harder. velocity in the low to mid 2900 is where mine seem to shoot best with 80-85 gr bullets. I have shot deer (whitetails) out to 2900 yards with great results.
I think the heavies true hunting bullet for the 223 is the 65 gr sierra game king with similar velocities. remember on a pig you have to pernitrate the gristle plate to get to the vitals.
I personally would go with the heaviest hunting bullet available. the heavy .223 bullets are designed for target shooting. keep in mind 6mm bullets are designed for the bigger cartridges such as the 243 velocities and the varmint bullets designed for the 243 act like big game bullets at 6x45 velocities.
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Last edited by foxhunter; 05-04-2020 at 02:22 PM.
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  #7  
Old 05-04-2020, 02:49 PM
JSH JSH is offline
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6-223/6x45/6TCU or even the 6x47/6-204 perform over the top of most expectations. Hogs, I would not skimp on bullets. I can put you in contact with a fellow in Texas that has tested a lot of 6mm,6.5 and 7mm bullets in milder cartridges.

Imho it was easier to get the little 6mm shooting than the 223. Lots of good varmint bullets along with good edible game bullets.

2900 yards, over a mile and a half, you may have some numbers mixed up.

Last edited by JSH; 05-04-2020 at 04:47 PM.
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  #8  
Old 05-04-2020, 05:51 PM
kenbro kenbro is offline
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jawry,
Take a look at the Sharps Rifle Company website and consider the 25-45 Sharps.
This (Mine) out performs the 6x45 by quite a bit, with velocities beyond 3000fps with a 90 grain hunting bullet. (Over 1700 ft lbs)
Mine worked very good on our Fallow deer.
My longest one, 184 yds lasered. H& lung shot, no run, deer did a back flip, kicked a bit and died.
Ken.
PS. No need to drive them as fast as i did, sometimes those bullets work better at slightly lower velocities.
I needed to get mine above 3000 fpsto comply with our Deer shooting laws.
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Last edited by kenbro; 05-04-2020 at 06:01 PM. Reason: PS.
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  #9  
Old 05-04-2020, 06:41 PM
Johnly Johnly is offline
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Just wondering what load was giving you 3000 fps with a 90 gr. bullet. Quickload suggests that such loads would have some pretty stiff pressures.

Cartridge : .25-45 Sharps
Bullet : .257, 85, Nosler BalTip 43004
Useable Case Capaci: 24.558 grain H2O = 1.595 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 18.0 inch = 457.2 mm

Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 59250 psi, or 408 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 105 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !

32 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 70%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Winchester 296 82.7 20.1 1.30 2767 100.0 59250 7028 0.860 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-7 103.9 22.7 1.47 2743 99.4 59250 7169 0.857 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335 105.0 25.9 1.68 2731 94.0 54611 7832 0.868 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2200 103.7 23.8 1.54 2727 94.2 59250 7409 0.850 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 200 105.0 23.3 1.51 2725 99.1 54370 7462 0.894 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 1680 95.1 22.5 1.46 2724 97.4 59250 7194 0.851 ! Near Maximum !
ADI BM2 104.3 25.2 1.63 2720 92.9 59250 7452 0.853 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4227 99.2 20.6 1.33 2714 100.0 59250 6599 0.848 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H110 83.9 20.4 1.32 2697 100.0 59250 6435 0.868 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4198 104.8 22.3 1.44 2696 96.1 59250 6986 0.851 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4227 98.1 20.3 1.32 2693 100.0 59250 6548 0.850 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Lil'Gun 83.0 19.5 1.26 2682 100.0 59250 6113 0.871 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2210 105.0 24.5 1.59 2682 92.1 55858 7397 0.873 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N120 105.0 21.7 1.41 2667 100.0 53960 6490 0.885 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4198 105.0 21.3 1.38 2649 98.8 51660 6902 0.889 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-10x 105.0 22.4 1.45 2637 97.5 48127 7357 0.927
Alliant 2400 78.9 17.0 1.10 2620 100.0 59250 5684 0.866 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N110 94.3 18.1 1.17 2618 100.0 59250 5641 0.871 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4100 80.5 18.8 1.22 2616 100.0 59250 5684 0.868 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Enforcer 77.4 17.9 1.16 2602 100.0 59250 5568 0.874 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2205 92.1 19.8 1.29 2601 100.0 59250 5793 0.864 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2230 105.0 25.7 1.67 2592 87.7 49709 7200 0.918
Accurate 2460 105.0 25.6 1.66 2587 89.6 47240 7362 0.941
Winchester 748 105.0 25.6 1.66 2582 87.9 45502 7555 0.938
Hodgdon H322 105.0 23.1 1.50 2570 92.6 44823 7283 0.944
Alliant Reloder-12 105.0 24.2 1.57 2557 92.9 45748 7109 0.941
Accurate No.9 70.6 17.0 1.10 2556 100.0 59250 5267 0.872 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot X-Terminator 105.0 25.4 1.64 2550 85.8 48354 7065 0.932
Accurate 2015 105.0 22.7 1.47 2534 95.3 43311 7045 0.977
Vihtavuori N130 105.0 22.2 1.44 2533 96.6 45711 6739 0.954
Bofors RP11 TZ ~approximation 105.0 23.1 1.50 2531 96.4 39816 7371 0.987
Alliant BLUE DOT 84.4 15.6 1.01 2527 100.0 59250 5137 0.875 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant AR-Comp 105.0 23.0 1.49 2516 96.1 39088 7330 0.995
Hodgdon CFE223 105.0 26.5 1.72 2510 82.8 43201 7361 0.964
Hodgdon Benchmark 105.0 23.4 1.52 2509 88.8 46014 6836 0.954
Hodgdon BL-C2 105.0 25.9 1.68 2486 84.2 40538 7337 0.990
IMR 8208 XBR 105.0 23.8 1.54 2484 86.1 42466 6955 0.977
Ramshot Wild Boar 105.0 25.4 1.65 2482 82.8 42150 7102 0.977
Ramshot TAC 105.0 25.6 1.66 2468 79.7 44381 6823 0.967
Accurate 2520 105.0 25.1 1.62 2460 86.9 38065 7220 1.018
Hodgdon H4895 105.0 23.8 1.54 2446 83.4 39139 7051 1.011
ADI AR 2206 105.0 23.5 1.52 2437 85.3 43746 6510 0.978
ADI AR 2206H 105.0 23.8 1.54 2433 82.3 39136 6955 1.014
Norma 202 105.0 23.4 1.52 2425 88.2 37492 6946 1.028
Accurate 2495 105.0 23.3 1.51 2403 90.6 32664 7354 1.095
Lovex D073.6 105.0 24.5 1.59 2392 85.2 35109 6997 1.055
Norma 201 105.0 23.3 1.51 2383 84.0 37329 6756 1.052
Vihtavuori N133 105.0 21.8 1.41 2379 92.4 37666 6329 1.030
IMR 3031 105.0 22.2 1.44 2371 88.1 33521 6987 1.065
Vihtavuori N540 105.0 24.0 1.56 2361 86.3 35268 6765 1.055
IMR 4895 105.0 23.8 1.54 2360 79.6 34831 6861 1.059
Vihtavuori N140 105.0 23.3 1.51 2354 87.4 35639 6540 1.051
Alliant Reloder-15 105.0 23.8 1.54 2327 78.0 34227 6642 1.069
Ramshot Big Game 105.0 25.3 1.64 2326 77.0 35581 6612 1.054
IMR 4320 105.0 23.4 1.52 2282 77.3 34755 6214 1.066
ADI AR 2208 105.0 23.1 1.50 2282 77.8 34717 6187 1.069
Alliant HERCO 84.4 12.0 0.78 2279 100.0 59250 3969 0.925 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET 105.0 23.0 1.49 2273 77.6 34364 6156 1.073
Hodgdon H380 105.0 24.3 1.57 2251 74.0 32264 6285 1.103
Alliant UNIQUE 76.5 11.2 0.72 2244 100.0 59250 3819 0.929 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064 105.0 22.5 1.45 2242 77.3 32755 6038 1.094
Accurate 4064 105.0 23.3 1.51 2227 82.8 27166 6685 1.181
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  #10  
Old 05-04-2020, 08:25 PM
kenbro kenbro is offline
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Johnly,
I asked 3 different guys with QL and each came back with different figures from the same information I gave them.
I don’t use QL but rely on observational data.
Still, (fingers crossed ) got 4 fingers, 2 thumbs and 2 eyes.
Not gonna tell anyone my load data. Just work up SLOWLY, as you’ve been advised many times. Most people that publish load data work on the conservative side.
Regards,Ken.
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