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  #11  
Old 12-19-2007, 08:19 AM
georgeld georgeld is offline
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H mm, interesting.

Jim: One BIG question about your "meat damage".

WHY are you shooting them in the meat in the first place??
Same goes for big game hunters.

Back to being the smart ass now: I'd never use a "weapon" in the field either.
Weapons are to be used "against another" right?

Thank you for viewing these with an open mind.

Where are you in the UK? Is it anywhere near Dedham by chance?
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  #12  
Old 12-19-2007, 01:12 PM
tonybelding tonybelding is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgeld View Post
Back to being the smart ass now: I'd never use a "weapon" in the field either.
Weapons are to be used "against another" right?
I know a maker of fine big-bore air rifles who absolutely insists his guns are not weapons. . . then shows photos on his website of the various large game animals that have been killed with them.

However, we shouldn't try to be too politically correct. I think the term "hunting weapon" is pretty well established in the lexicon by now. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunting_weapon
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  #13  
Old 12-19-2007, 04:49 PM
11fifer1 11fifer1 is offline
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Point taken, found this in the dictionary (in blue)
inweap·on /ˈwɛpən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[wep-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. any instrument or device for use in attack or defence in combat, fighting, or war, as a sword, rifle, or cannon.
2. anything used against an opponent, adversary, or victim: the deadly weapon of satire.
3. Zoology. any part or organ serving for attack or defense, as claws, horns, teeth, or stings.
–verb (used with object) 4. to supply or equip with a weapon or weapons: to weapon aircraft with heat-seeking missiles.
I think anyone being shot by accident would class them selves as a victim,either through misconduct,neglect, or someone not being reasonable enough to have a safety on a firearm of some sort!
I know others feel the same,I cant be the only one.....please tell me I'm not the only one...... there should be at least one barrier between the trigger and bullet, if this wasn't the case why would they have invented it in the first place! (now there's a thought) ...lol,..... to tell the truth I don't even know what the law is in the UK regarding safety catches? cant say I've seen any air guns without a safety catch in recent years! right then to get back on track I don't think I'll be buying a Walther, just wouldn't feel right,
what a shame!
Jim
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  #14  
Old 12-19-2007, 06:08 PM
Bryce Bryce is offline
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OK not that model, I wondered how the safety could be overlooked when it is right there.

Like the other guys mentioned, logically they intended the rifle version of the pistol to be a target use only rifle and hence the lack of a safety. Lots of target rifles don't have safetys.

Merry Christmas.
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  #15  
Old 12-19-2007, 06:29 PM
bcp bcp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11fifer1 View Post
First of all Hi, I've been on the side line for a while and found this forum a very good read! I myself shoot a .17 REM with very good results, although I do wish at times there wasn't the meat damage, so any information on loads etc would be much appreciated!
Try Hodgdon Youth Loads in your 17 Rem.
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/youth/index.php

"For all cartridges we chose H4895 because it is the slowest burning propellant that ignites uniformly at reduced charges. For years, H4895 has been the top choice by cast bullet shooters. For this type shooting, loads are reduced even more than the hunting loads listed herein. To create loads of this type for target and plinking, we recommend our 60% rule with H4895. By taking the maximum charges listed in our Annual Manual with any given cartridge and multiplying it by 60%, the shooter can create a 1500 to 2100 fps load, depending on the bullet weight shown. This works only where H4895 is listed. Do not use H4895 in a cartridge where it has not been shown.

Call Hodgdon Powder Company if additional information is needed. Loads may be adjusted up or down to achieve best accuracy. Do not reduce by more than an additional 10%."

Bruce
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  #16  
Old 12-19-2007, 09:49 PM
sicero sicero is offline
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Try using some Berger target bullet in the light load of H4895 and will still have dead rabbits but they won't be scattered about much. Kenny
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  #17  
Old 12-20-2007, 02:45 AM
GLWenzl GLWenzl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcp View Post
Try Hodgdon Youth Loads in your 17 Rem.
http://www.hodgdon.com/data/youth/index.php

"For all cartridges we chose H4895 because it is the slowest burning propellant that ignites uniformly at reduced charges. For years, H4895 has been the top choice by cast bullet shooters. For this type shooting, loads are reduced even more than the hunting loads listed herein. To create loads of this type for target and plinking, we recommend our 60% rule with H4895. By taking the maximum charges listed in our Annual Manual with any given cartridge and multiplying it by 60%, the shooter can create a 1500 to 2100 fps load, depending on the bullet weight shown. This works only where H4895 is listed. Do not use H4895 in a cartridge where it has not been shown.

Call Hodgdon Powder Company if additional information is needed. Loads may be adjusted up or down to achieve best accuracy. Do not reduce by more than an additional 10%."

Bruce
Good info Bruce and thanks for posting, I have been using these reduced loads from a 30-06 to a 243 with really good results.
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  #18  
Old 12-20-2007, 05:43 PM
11fifer1 11fifer1 is offline
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Bruce I didn't realise Hodgdon had published a youth load for the .17 REM, thanks, has anyone here got the data as I don't have the Hodgdon manual, would be much appreciated!
As for the Walther .22 I personally think along with others that it's lack of safety may affect its "must have affect, I think most people are "belt n braces when it comes to firearm's, lets face it, its bad enough if you injure yourself! but to injure someone else is unforgivable, any shooting buddies deserve the respect of their shooting partner along with anyone one or thing on the field.
I only know of two fatal shooting accidents while hunting here in the UK, both due to safety actions or lack of!, one was a gundog the other was a pigeon shooter who I might add wasn't English, from what I've been told he had had a problem with the safety and rather than fix it ........he removed it.
He went out pigeon shooting, while there he left the hide to retrieve a shot pigeon leaving the gun propped up against the netting (loaded), you know the rest the gun went over shot him in the groin, I was told it nearly removed his leg and he bled out within seconds.
Others on the field were in a rare old state, one was a relative of his the other was the farmer, the ambulance crew must have seen it all before but it cant be nice! is it worth it?
I think if I were to build a rifle of this class knowing that the price tag is far greater than the average off the shelf item "and so it should be I might add, true class, I personally would put safety first, if the customer is going pay that sort of money in the first place a little more shouldn't be a problem, not if you value life.
On the file (PDF) that's attached to the Walther web page it does refer to squirrels saying (for squirrels its over kill) so I think some may like to use it in the field and not just competition! got to remember the choice would be theirs!
I seem to be going on a bit but I knew one of the people who had one of the accidents and he never forgave himself! thanks to all who've added to this thread
Food for thought
Jim
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  #19  
Old 12-20-2007, 06:24 PM
bcp bcp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11fifer1 View Post
Bruce I didn't realise Hodgdon had published a youth load for the .17 REM, thanks, has anyone here got the data as I don't have the Hodgdon manual, would be much appreciated!
They haven't published on line a Youth Load for the 17 Rem. They have only that paragraph about how to make one from a published H4895 maximum load, which they do have on line at:
http://data.hodgdon.com/


Bruce
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  #20  
Old 12-20-2007, 07:28 PM
11fifer1 11fifer1 is offline
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Bruce do i take it that any load recipie listed with H4895 can be down loaded "youth load)
thanks
Jim
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