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  #31  
Old 08-03-2016, 06:04 PM
22_boomer 22_boomer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trotterlg View Post
I bought a bag of formed brass from sleepinggiantbrass.com for the 14TCM and it has been excellent. Price was right too. Larry
Thanks for that info on the 22 TCM brass. I just ordered some from Sleeping Giant so I'll have something to play with while I wait for a barrel.
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  #32  
Old 08-03-2016, 06:08 PM
22_boomer 22_boomer is offline
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Originally Posted by Nor Cal Mikie View Post
I asked a few questions and got an email reply. Come to find out the 22 TCM is "proprietary" (I had to look it up to get the actual meaning) so a reamer can't be made from the print specs. Reamer and dies will have to come from a dummy round. Just a little different measurement will get the job done.
If you really needed the 22 TCM reamer, PTG has them per their web site.
http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/22-ca...cm-reamer.html
The Gunsmiths I talked to already have the reamer so I just need to order the barrel.
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  #33  
Old 08-04-2016, 01:04 AM
Nor Cal Mikie Nor Cal Mikie is offline
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Ordered up and received a special 20 caliber seater die. Seated a couple of bullets for dummy rounds. Turned out good enough that I shipped them off to JGS Precision in Oregon and they'll be cutting me a reamer to the dummy round specs.
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  #34  
Old 08-04-2016, 10:56 AM
22_boomer 22_boomer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor Cal Mikie View Post
Ordered up and received a special 20 caliber seater die. Seated a couple of bullets for dummy rounds. Turned out good enough that I shipped them off to JGS Precision in Oregon and they'll be cutting me a reamer to the dummy round specs.
If you get a chance could you post a picture of that cartridge -- it's got to be a little beauty?
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  #35  
Old 07-19-2017, 06:42 AM
223Short 223Short is offline
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Default 223 Short Reamer

Quote:
Originally Posted by trotterlg View Post
Been so long ago I don't remember much about the first GM barrel I made up, I do know they had some excellent results with it, then I made up the takeoff Remington barrel using their newly made 22 short reamer, it was a sporter contour and I think it is what is on the test Savage now. I believe the first person doing the barrel testing work was involved in a very serious motorcycle accident which slowed the test process down a lot and disrupted the documentation some. Larry
Larry did great work on this project and deserves every credit for being a great mentor to me (a novice) and he has awesome gunsmith skils.

I am the 223 Short designer and current tester in MO, a new team member in AZ has chambered a Savage bolt and an evil black rifle of some kind, can recall the model off the top of my head.

PT&G should know all about the 223 Short, they should have a drawing on file from my original order.

I am working on producing bulk brass from once fired stock. I used a custom CH4D FL Sizer and removed the decapper to create a former. There is a 9 mo. wait for them now. We are also exploring making up custom dies.

I use a Lee Universal Decapper, Lee 221 FB Seater cut down the base .275" and also cut down the top some, otherwise it would not work with a really wide range of bullets. I also have a Lee Factory Crimp cut down. Our AZ team member modified a Lee Collect Neck Sizer recently, but I had to send it back as it needed some more modification. He also produced a case cutting jig for the Proxxon Mini-Mitre Saw.

Case forming needs to be done with lot of leverage and quickly, otherwise the cases split. Once fired processed cases have a life of about 6 reloads without annealing, because the necks are 0.011"+ thick and we do not neck ream.

We have a Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/223-Short-Chat

We can kill a coyote at 300 yards with the 223 Short, the goal was 225 yards. Uses about 12gr-13gr of powders like L'Il Gun, Benchmark, and 5.5gr of TiteGroup. Same amount of powder as a Hornet, twice the range. It does operate at 55k PSI when fully loaded with something like L'Il Gun. The original barrel Larry chambered for Shane, for an 11# F-Class rig, got sub-MOA at 300 yards.

I think it works so well because if you scale up the entire case and bullet to 30 cal., what you have is a 30BR with a 23deg shoulder. Deliberately designed with BR case proportions.
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  #36  
Old 07-20-2017, 12:19 PM
22_boomer 22_boomer is offline
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I know some people believe it may be a waste of time to do these In-Between cartridges but I've been trying to find a small cartridge that's a little larger than the 22 Reed Express/22 TCM but smaller than the 22 Fireball. This .223 short has my interest since I would like to do an AR-15 in the cartridge if time allows. I have the 22 Reed Express in an AR and it is a bit more powerful than the 22 TCM which I also have in an AR-15. The already formed brass for the 22TCM has allowed me to shoot that round more but I want to step it up a bit more. I guess I need to get some .223 cartridge case specs and practice my forming and then work on the barrel.

What seems to be a good barrel length and twist for the .223 Short when using bullets out to the length of a 55gr V-max?
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  #37  
Old 07-20-2017, 01:24 PM
Nor Cal Mikie Nor Cal Mikie is offline
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A waste of time? IMHO, not by a long shot. The only way to find out what will work the way YOU WANT IT TO, is build it yourself.
I think if we dig deep enough, there's probably someone out there that already tried that. So we end up reinventing the wheel.
I tried the 20 VT "short". .250" shorter than the 20 VT. Wasn't too happy the way the brass turned out. In hindsight, I'am thinking commercial brass might have been easier to work with than mil spec 5.56 or .223. Might go back and see what difference there is. Mil spec seems to be harder and heavier.
Once I found the quality of the 22 TCM brass, I set aside the "short" project.
I'am not into it but have you ever considered trying to "AI" that case you're working on? Or, just blow the shoulders out a bit more by seating the bullets long into the lands? Might be worth a try but you'll know more about going that way than I.
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  #38  
Old 07-21-2017, 04:56 AM
foxhunter foxhunter is offline
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made this case almost 20 years ago, the original case was a a .223 short (223 viper) but ended up being a 17mach 4 short (aka 17 viper). there is also a 20 cal viper. super efficient and kills way out of proportion to case capacity.





may not be able to read all of this, it is from zhat's book on cartridges.
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  #39  
Old 07-21-2017, 10:28 PM
sicero sicero is offline
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If you find the chamber a little tight for the base of the case.

Try Sandpaper. Kenny
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  #40  
Old 07-26-2017, 12:43 AM
223Short 223Short is offline
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Default Barrel...for 55gr

What seems to be a good barrel length and twist for the .223 Short when using bullets out to the length of a 55gr V-max?[/quote]

The Remington take-off barrel Larry made up was 1:12 or 1:13. It shoots 50gr V-Max very well...have not found the right load for the 55s. Shoots lights out the 22 TCM 40gr Armscor bullets. F-Class GM Original barrel shot up to 75gr

Case spec is 1.125" Trim length, 1.135" max case length, 23º shoulder & .203 neck (223 and 221 FB Spec), .378 base tapered to .361 (221 FB Spec).

Reamer PTG Print #51121. 223 Short v1. Dave Kiff Approved. 1/28/13.

If anyone wants a reamer print I'll email one.

If anyone wants a couple of case sample, I'll mail you them.

Just email me at 223short@gmail.com

Last edited by 223Short; 07-26-2017 at 01:03 AM. Reason: Added info
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