Load date questions..

[Bill K]

I see more and more questions re: load information and questions on what too use, how much, etc. etc.
Do not these people, with these questions, not have a couple of reloading books or use the data base's that several powder and bullet companies have out, for our use ?
I may be old school, but when I started reloading, one thing always mentioned to have, along with the press, dies and all, was at least one reloading manual. The first one I had, I still have with others and it was the old one put out by Speer, back in the mid fifties. Just wondering. Bill K

[Larry]

Good observation. Even some of our wildcats have powder company data available now. I've seen some scary load recommendations, on other sites of course.

Of course there is data and then other data. Compare your old Speer manual to current recommendations. Mine are not mid 50's but Speer #8 from 1970 has some loads way over current recommendations.

Don't know if your familiar with the books by Bob Hagel. Now he believed in loading a magnum like a magnum.

I'm not nearly as adventurous as I once was. Few extra fps just not worth it.
Larry

[Hog Patrol]

This MAY or MAY not apply to the OP's question.
Here's my take on what goes on with noobies. They want to start at the top and work their way down, i.e. shortcuts that relieve them of the work and experience to get where they want to go. It's endemic in today's society and it's called instant gratification. Buy the super duper wildcat custom rifle and immediately think the first time they go to the range with a bunch of internet loads they expect to shoot bughole groups. They don't know loads are tailored to ONE SPECIFIC rifle NOT THEIRS! Forget building trigger time, they know how to shoot, just buy the best you can buy and pull the trigger. Go on different sites and you'll see the noobs throwing money at a setup then think they're going to shoot an elk at 1000 yards. On top of that, too much YouTube, too many guys going directly from a video game to an AR or AK. If you've been in this sport as long as I have, you can see the change of culture from learning to crawl before walking to walking, falling down, frustration and disappointment. I see it in my circle of shooters. What rifle do they buy for their 10 year old son to start out with? A .243, an AR15, or a 22-250. I look at them and think are they freakin' nuts? What happened to starting out with a BB gun, then progressing to a single shot, iron sight .22? I feel like telling them STOP THE INSANITY! Oh yeah, Reloading manual? What's that? I'll just use Joe Sixpack's primer piercing, mach 5 load for my 17 wiffleblaster.
That's my .02

[Varmint Shooter]

It appears to me that most everyone is after greater velocity. If someone
posts their getting 4000fps plus, someone else says their getting 4200fps,
etc, etc. If you have worked up a load that is accurate, what difference does
fps matter. The critters that I have taken could not tell any difference between
fps and accuracy. I'll stay with my accurate loads. I am having a lot fun this
year.

[Dean2]

Problem is we live in a Google society. Try running the internal help desk in most companies. You will find that the same person calls back for the same question dozens of times. When you ask them why, 1- they don't take or keep a system of notes and 2 - they have no ability to recall previously learned info. They do not even try to remember because they can just "Google" for the answer.

As far as loading manuals, I think they have gotten more conservative with better pressure measurement systems but I also think many of the new batches of powder or quite a bit hotter than the batches made 40 years ago. I know I have a batch of 1950s 4831 (before there was IMR vs H), if you used the loads I have for that with modern 4831 the results would not be good.

Outside of my pet laod for the 22 Hornet, I will recommend bullet, powder and primer combos for a specific cartridge but will not usually post exact loads.

[coyotespotter]

I have stopped trying to load for max velocity, instead looking for a powder load range that has a similar poi. Then I know small variance in powder weight will not cause fliers. I do load up and find where high pressure signs begin so I know max for each rifle ( have not done this with the new Lilja barrel on my 17 rem).

[Bill K]

All good points and I agree with all info/comments given. And I guess the one's asking are the one's that do not want too experiment and/or read, as we have and do.
They do want the magic load just given too them. But do not realize that what is super for one and his rifle/pistol, etc. is not a given for their weapon.
Each is a beast in it's own right and must be tested and the load ( and bullet) that works for theirs.
Bottom line is still use and read, for starters the information offered by the bullet and especially the powder companies. Bill K

[ramos]

My approach depends on what I am working with.

Old powder, old books.

New powder, online load data provided by the manufacturer.

Unusual loads, I start by asking around here and then search manufacturers sites for supporting information. This is what I did to find workable reduced loads for young hunters.

Whatever I settle on, every possible detail is recorded in a hardcover notebook. I don't think the value of good recording habits can be over estimated.

I sure would hate to discourage anyone who asks a question, though. When I started, there was no internet and I did not have anyone to ask. Books were my only source of information. Honestly, I have learned more in the last ten years than I learned in the 25 years before that. Mostly by being able to ask questions on a very few sites like this one.

One of my pet-peaves is when a guy asks a question and the only reply consists entirely of: 'Do a search, been covered a million times'. We can do better than that.

All this being said, I understand your point, Bill. We just have to help those folks understand why we can't give them the 'best load' for their particular firearm. Once we enlighten them with our vast knowledge ( ), they should understand that it's up to them to do the leg work. If that takes more effort than they like, they will soon find another pursuit.

[Rocklong]

Well said Ramos

[dungheap]

I like to keep my manuals up to date, particularly Lyman and Nosler. Sierra has good data, but has not been updated since dinosaurs roamed the Earth.
The magazine format load data books from Hodgdon and Ramshot are good too. Beyond that, LoadData, Steve's Pages and other internet sources are helpful, but none anywhere near as good as what can be garnered right here on Saubier, especially for one tinkering with wildcats. The guys on here have been more than helpful more often than I can say.

As to the guy who just has to go way overboard right out of the gate, everyone will agree that you simply can't fix stupid. Some have to learn the hard way.

JMO