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  #21  
Old 10-13-2006, 09:28 AM
Larry in VA Larry in VA is offline
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Thumbs up Ditto DiitoHead....

Excellent write-up! Could you or someone recommend a good book on the process of "Bullet Making"? Always wanted to know more about the "BM" process, looked at some of Corbines books but sticker shock kept me away at the time. I really don't need another hobby, but this is getting more & more intriguing. Wife is gonna kill me!
Larry
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  #22  
Old 10-13-2006, 12:03 PM
jim saubier jim saubier is offline
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Default primary difference

The primary difference that i notice from your operation is the location of the die. It is opposite of ours, our die is threaded into the press like a reloading die, and the punches are located on the press ram. not an advantage or disadvantage, just different. wondering how the ejection works, i'll try to get some pics. couldn't see it in the pics, with our set-up there is an ejection pin that pushes down through the top of the die, pushing the bullet out by the nose.
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  #23  
Old 10-13-2006, 01:03 PM
Gary in Illinois Gary in Illinois is offline
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Default Bullet Swaging Books

Larry,
Dave Corbin has some e-books on his site that are available free for downloading. I found his "Handbook of Swaging #9" well worth reading as it steps through the process using his tools.

Good luck,
Gary
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  #24  
Old 10-13-2006, 02:42 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim saubier View Post
The primary difference that i notice from your operation is the location of the die. It is opposite of ours, our die is threaded into the press like a reloading die, and the punches are located on the press ram. not an advantage or disadvantage, just different. wondering how the ejection works, i'll try to get some pics. couldn't see it in the pics, with our set-up there is an ejection pin that pushes down through the top of the die, pushing the bullet out by the nose.
Jim:

I have seen two swaging set-ups on RCBS presses that I imagine are just like yours, and that is a difference in how the process works versus my press.

On the bullet point forming die, as the press handle is pulled down to raise the die/ram against the fixed external punch, the bullet jacket is forced into the die open end first and the bullet nose is formed at the botom of the die. The external punch pushes on the base of the bullet jacket to force it into the form die.

On the up stoke of the press handle, the ram and die is lowered away from the fixed external punch and the internal punch/ejection pin pushes against the nose of the bullet to push the bullet up and out of the die.

I don't know if my press just happens to be perfectly level or what, but about 50% of the time the finished bullet is actually sitting balanced nose first on the ejection pin which is level with the top of the die.

The diameter of the internal punch on the point forming die is 0.060" and the die allows for the forming of a bullet with the tip completely closed before the bullet tip starts to '"fish mouth" or bell outward in the bottom of the die.

I can also leave the bullet tip open more than 0.060" if I want and the ejection pin merely goes inside the bullet tip and pushes against the seated lead core to eject the bullet. I have examined the interior of the bullet with a magnifying glass when doing this, and the pin leaves just a very small insignificant mark on the end of the lead core.

All of the other stage dies work this way and leave the finished product sitting on the top of the die when the press handle is return to the full up position. It makes it very easy to just pick the finished product off with the fingers.

As I mentioned at the start yesterday, the only die/punch combination that works with the external punch mounted on the ram and the die on the top of the press frame is the jacket reducing die. The jacket is placed on the tip of the punch and it moves up and through the reduction die and the fully reduced jacket comes out the top of the die. This is also the only process where the long/reloading stroke on the press is used and needed. The operation requires very little effort with the press.

All the other forming stages use the short stroke setting where the ram does not move nearly as much with a full pull of the press handle.

The bullet lube which I use is water soluble and I bought a strainer like our wives might use to rinse pasta with......that's how I rinse the lube off the lead cores with warm faucet water. I also use it to wash the trimmed bullet jackets prior to seating the lead cores in the jackets. And of coure it's very important that both the cores and the jackets are thoroughly dried before you seat a core into a bullet jacket.

Everything I have read about bullet swaging emphasizes the importance of a clean jacket - inside and out - and a clean lead core to insure good bonding of the two when the core is seated. I would imagine that it becomes more important both for the balance of the bullet itself and for terminal bullet performance (core separation) as you swage bigger diameter bullets.

I took a short-cut one time with a few 20 caliber bullets just to see if there was an impact on performance. I didn't wash the cores or the jackets and the bullets did not shoot as well at 100 yards as bullets with washed cores and jackets. It made a believer out of me.

As was mentioned, Dave Corbin's web site has some very informative information free for the taking. I found working with him 6 years ago to be very easy when I had a lot of questions and was shopping prices. On the other hand, and I say this somewhat tongue-in-cheek, he would make an excellent used car salesman as he is very persuasive when you talk to him. But I can say that easily and without any malice as my wife was raised in a family headed by a GM car dealer. And Dave did not "sell" me on buying his equipment; as I mentioned earlier he was just able to give me a little bit better delivery time 6 years ago with everything else seeming to be pretty equal between he and his brother (RCE, Inc.). I have spoken to Richard also and have found him to be very helpful too in answering the questions I had. I could easily deal with either one of them in the future if I was starting over.

HTH - BCB
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Last edited by Bayou City Boy; 10-13-2006 at 06:35 PM.
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  #25  
Old 10-13-2006, 08:24 PM
Pappy Pappy is offline
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Default Pulling the handle is hard work

I'd like to try another kind of press sometime, just to see if it would enable me to make more bullets in a week. Counting cutting the cores, squirting, seating, and pointing up, it takes 4000 strokes to make 1000 bullets, and the need for perfect uniformity just begs for an RMS (Repetitive Motion Syndrome) injury. So far, I've avoided that pitfall, but I rarely complete more than one step in a day, except sometimes easy ones like cutting core pieces. Pointing up requires the most effort, and most days I can't do 1000 at one sitting.
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  #26  
Old 10-13-2006, 08:50 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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Default Pappy: I agree totally......

That was precisely the reason I stated earlier in the post Re Black Hole Bullets that anything short of an automated machine would not be good for a bullet maker in the business of selling large volumes of bullets.

Day after day of cranking any press handle would accumulate on your body fairly quickly, I would think, - irregardless of what hand operated press you might use.

JMO - BCB
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Yo no creo en santos que orinan.

Women and cats will do as they please. Men and dogs should relax and just get used to the idea.

Going keyboard postal over something that you read on the internet is like seeing a pile of dog crap on the sidewalk and choosing to step in it rather than stepping around it.

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  #27  
Old 10-14-2006, 01:49 PM
vmthtr in Green Bay vmthtr in Green Bay is offline
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My friend is making 30 caliber bullets for HBR. He bought Blackmon steel dies and is using a Blackmon press for the last point up operation and modified Rockchuckers for the others. We used his bullets for a 1st and 2nd place looser finish in the WI state finals this year. (2nd and third place) He makes three weights, but mostly just one and leaves the dies set in each press. He will make no less than 1000 bullets before he changes out for another weight. I helped one time and would rather neck turn brass than make bullets, luckily he really likes making bullets.

Mike

Last edited by vmthtr in Green Bay; 10-20-2006 at 10:20 PM.
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  #28  
Old 10-14-2006, 08:11 PM
Larry in VA Larry in VA is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary in Illinois View Post
Larry,
Dave Corbin has some e-books on his site that are available free for downloading. I found his "Handbook of Swaging #9" well worth reading as it steps through the process using his tools.

Good luck,
Gary
Thanks Gary, I will check them out.
Larry
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  #29  
Old 10-14-2006, 10:00 PM
jim saubier jim saubier is offline
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Default blackmon dies

i've heard a lot of good things about the blackmon dies and have shot some very good 6mm bullets made from these dies. To the best of my knowledge, he only makes steel dies, not a problem unless you plan on making a few hundred thousand bullets.

Congrats and good shooting.

i hope to see lots of experienced bullet makers sharing knowledge here, so invite your buddy to join the site.
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  #30  
Old 10-14-2006, 10:34 PM
vmthtr in Green Bay vmthtr in Green Bay is offline
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Jim,
We sent him some of the bullets you sent me and told him to copy them. He will make carbide dies, but cost is a lot more. I will send him this forum addy.

Mike
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