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  #21  
Old 10-28-2018, 12:59 PM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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Originally Posted by Oso Polaris View Post
This may be what I ultimately have to do. I plan to run some hand loads using Lapua brass as well as some new Federal ammo through the rifle and see if the issue continues. it is possible that issue was ammo specific.
I believe that most posters recognized that this could be ammo related, even though its supposedly "factory" ammo. However, you also asked for help with identifying the possible root causes of the problem which is obviously case head stretching/separation upon firing., and that is what most posters tried to supply accurately as to what the issue/s might be in terms of gun issues with an AI chamber.

I hope you get it worked out and it is nothing more than a bad batch of ammo.

-BCB

PS- I'm curios as to who the gunsmith is. Since we both live in the Houston metro area, PM me if you would and maybe I can offer some insight in that direction. Maybe not.... I won't opine here online if I know of his work, good or bad.
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Last edited by Bayou City Boy; 10-28-2018 at 01:19 PM.
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  #22  
Old 10-28-2018, 07:55 PM
rick w. rick w. is offline
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One today may find some factory ammo on the short side of SAAMI. Fits everything, but has some downside to the reloader or improved shooter.

One today may find that 4 short in setback might not be enough with some factory ammo.

Guess particular measurements ahead of time would be worthwhile in some cases.

If was mine, false shoulder it on new virgin brass fwiw. Then neck size only for a while before thinking of bumping. Bumping can be overdone pretty easily.
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  #23  
Old 11-02-2018, 12:12 PM
reed1911 reed1911 is offline
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If it helps any, we make and sell formed .223 AI brass and ammo.
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  #24  
Old 11-02-2018, 03:35 PM
Daryl Daryl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oso Polaris View Post
This may be what I ultimately have to do. I plan to run some hand loads using Lapua brass as well as some new Federal ammo through the rifle and see if the issue continues. it is possible that issue was ammo specific.
0, ie: ZERO failure is what should be expected when fire-forming brass.

Forming brass mechanically is another problem as I've found out, supplying an overseas friend & a couple of his "collector" friends with wildcat cases for their 'collections'. He has over 700 cases in his collection and none except a few under .375" I mistakenly sent him couple years ago. I've sent him over a hundred and hardest to work with, are NEW WTBY cases, due, of course to the radiused soft shoulders when moving them &/or necking.
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  #25  
Old 11-09-2018, 01:10 AM
GrocMax GrocMax is offline
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Missed this thread, but a lot of the time this isn't headspace and the simple fix is to use 400's or other 'soft' more sensitive primers for the initial fireform load.

CHS on a 223 case occurs in about the same area but its an irregular line and should be shiny (from stretching), not perfectly radial lines formed into the brass from a poorly cut chamber with a chip drag or really dull reamer. Sometimes true incipient CHS is hard to detect externally because the brass has just been fired and conforms to the chamber.

.004" extra headspace isn't going to cause a CHS.

In 223 based AI's if you've tried everything else, and are tired of everyone telling you your headspace is wrong and you've checked it twice, get the hard thick relatively insensitive 450's, BR4's, 7 1/2's out and a 400 or 6 1/2 or WSR in for initial fireform.
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  #26  
Old 11-09-2018, 01:48 AM
varmintshooter varmintshooter is offline
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I don't like to argue on a forum but I wouldn't use a rem 6 1/2 primer for a 223AI fireforming load. I have seen what a case head seperation looks like and it is a straight line around the case, maybe not always but that is what I have seen. In my opinion a primer shouldn't make any difference in fireforming your brass. JMHO
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  #27  
Old 02-26-2019, 03:54 AM
Oso Polaris Oso Polaris is offline
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Default Update - 223AI Case Formation Failures

Life got busy - sorry for delay in providing update.

Rifle built with new Rem 700 CDL action, new Bartlein barrel chambered in 223AI (.004" setback).

Shot a variety of .223 Remington factory ammo through the rifle with really bad results...25%-40% failure to fire. The only one that was 100% successful was some Hornady Match ammo... two other flavors of Hornady were 40% failures. (Note: no ammo tested showed any case head separation after fire-forming.)

Gunsmith and I walked through the ammo with a micrometer. Most of factory ammo was .004" - .006" short at the shoulder from SAMI Spec. The Hornady Match was only sample that measured to spec.

Gunsmith pulled the factory firing pin for measurement. It was a few thousandths shorter than what he expected compared to other 700's. Changed it out and let gunsmith test fire ammo...first time I've heard him cuss...issue continued.

Finally, pulled and measured the firing pin spring (less than 100 rounds shot with it). Factory spring was really short by at least one coil as compared to a replacement spring from Wolf. Replaced factory spring with Wolf spring. I have not experienced another failure to fire while doing fire forming with factory ammo, my reloads, or 80% Cream of Wheat.

It appears that the original cases that I had case head separation was result of bad batch of ammo.

Last edited by Oso Polaris; 02-26-2019 at 03:59 AM.
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  #28  
Old 02-26-2019, 04:10 AM
georgeld georgeld is offline
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Good to hear you and the 'smith worked out the problems.

Reading this again I was going to suggest you toss that brass
and take the gun to the 'smith for a good looking over.

Glad you got it sorted out.
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  #29  
Old 02-26-2019, 12:20 PM
Gary in Illinois Gary in Illinois is offline
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Edward,
Please give me a call at (two one seven) eight two zero - zero zero nine seven.

Thanks,
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  #30  
Old 03-03-2019, 04:57 PM
montdoug montdoug is offline
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I haven't read all the posts so this might have been mentioned already but here's my guess anyway.
I would get all my case work done before loading then anneal the cases and also leave a real light smear of Imperial die lube on the outside of the case to facilitate stretching. That's what I'd do but in answering have I had it happen before the answer is no. I agree with ya that if loaded and fired again it'd let go.
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