K Hornet Fire Forming

[GLWenzl]

I agree it works BCB and while some may think it’s the best I personally prefer to make the complete shoulder. That’s said, I formed a lot of rimmed a lot of cases without making a shoulder or a false shoulder and headspace entirely off the rim... it really seems to shorten the life of that little thin Hornet brass though. The first time I tried to neck down a straight walled hornet case was was with a 17 Hornady Hornet which changed my way of thinking. I gave up on 22 Jet brass to 17 Jet long before this but I have a gut feeling that by necking it up straight wall and then back down to 17 what is solved the issue that is having and definitely gave me a better product similar to the 360/357 brass I was using. Purchased Mike Bellem’s head spacing kit/gauge to custom fit brass to my contenders... it works but it’s work lol lot of ways to get to the same point, I seldom stay on the same road lol

[Daryl]

Originally Posted by Bayou City Boy

It looks like from reading down through the comments that a false shoulder is a vert reliable method for fire forming cartridges.
I have to add that the general consensus here on how to use a false shoulder makes me feel much better about myself in that ya'll are obviously using "Google-fu" to Google up the same articles that I've "apparently" been Googling about the subject of improving cartridges to sound like I actually might know something.......

Now I can sleep better again.

-BcB

I've been loading with a pre-made false shoulder since 1978 - long before there was such a thing as a"google".
It made sense to me then and still does.

[Bill K]

Nothing wrong with using a false shoulder, if that is what and how you do it.

And nothing wrong with doing it the way I do, which is how I learned when getting into the Improved version/shoulder on various cartridges. And how Parker did it. By the way if you read his publications you will find out he never liked the name Ackley Improved given the cases by others, he liked just what he called a Improved case, which is what he did, with the shoulder angle and some removal of the case taper.

If it gets the case formed, like you want and fits the chamber dimensions you have the all is well and good.

[Bayou City Boy]

Originally Posted by Daryl

I've been loading with a pre-made false shoulder since 1978 - long before there was such a thing as a"google".
It made sense to me then and still does.

I totally agree. Daryl. I too have used false shoulder far longer than I can remember. It's definitely not anything new. I was being tongue in cheek when I made that comment in response to a poster who last week blasted me for being a Google expert.......

Bill, I fortunately spent a bit over 3 hours with old PO. You'd be surprised what he doesn't like when he was being candid......... He was a very interesting man who knew his business.

I just wish that his 2 volume work was widely available today for everyone in the shooting sports. They are a wealth of knowledge that maybe 1 in 10 shooters at best has heard about today.

As I stated yesterday, his process (whatever one might call it) did not require a false shoulder. He used the shortened head space idea simply because he was not moving a case shoulder/neck junction significantly He was simply changing its slope from basically the same point on the case and case shoulder from where the parent case started. I've never used anything but his method to "AI" a cartridge, and its a proven method that simply works, for lack of a better explanation.

btw - my favorite AI cartridge just happens to be the 257 AI...... for what its worth. With that, I'm going to go play today with a 4 wheeler and a 17 caliber rifle - and a 22 LR revolver - looking for "critters of opportunity", but mostly just enjoying the outdoors.

A picture of the 257AI rifle................ If the stock looks different its because the cheek piece is on the "wrong" side of the stock. I'm a left handed rifle shooter who leaned to shoot a right handed 22LR bolt action rifle at an early age. The learning stuck..........



-BCB

[Bill K]

Bill, I fortunately spent a bit over 3 hours with old PO. You'd be surprised what he doesn't like when he was being candid......... He was a very interesting man who knew his business.

We spent a whole day with him, way back when he visited the gunsmithing school. Yes very interesting person and had some strong opinions. But knew his business and did well in his time and day.

[Bayou City Boy]

LOL... If we're counting time as knowledge or whatever, Bill,, I didn't have to share hlm with others.

[GLWenzl]

Bill and BCB, you guys got absolutely nothing with PO.... I spent time shooting hundreds and hundreds of rounds with Ray H....

[Bill K]

Originally Posted by GLWenzl

Bill and BCB, you guys got absolutely nothing with PO.... I spent time shooting hundreds and hundreds of rounds with Ray H....

That would have been interesting also GL.
Some of you have probably read Elmer Keith's book "Hell, I was there" he also was a very strong one that had his opinions, etc.
If you do have that book or can locate one in a library, check out some of the photo's, near the back pages of a gunshop owner "Bob Wraggs" in Susanville, Ca. back in the 50's and also mention of the fifty caliber rifle the gunshop and others built back then.
Also the photo of the old International suburban with a couple guys shooting it over the hood.
Keith came there and did shoot it, since he tooted big guns, which he did in fact own and shoot all over the world, working out of his home in Salmon, ID.
Well when he came that time here, I and many others were up there and it is interesting what happened when he pulled the trigger on the .50 BMG.
But I am going to let that info lie, as I will not throw water on Mr Keith's memory.
Regardless this book is interesting to read and has some neat, old, photo's in it.

[GLWenzl]

When I first fell head over heels in love with my invention (the 17 Hornet), I was all alone with none to share my what I thought was the best thing in the whole wide world.... Fred at Bullberry was my first successful internet search for a contender gunsmith who set me straight about my invention being about 30 years too late...

Saubier was my second successful internet search and I was and still am so impressed with all the early 17 caliber pioneers and what they accomplished with so little 17 caliber supplies and equipment available to them. Their skill and knowledge was/is overwhelming and their willingness to share and help others was unbelievably! Dan C was one of the first of many that I remembered who displayed an example of 17 caliber knowledge, and willingness to humbly share and teach not only what they learned but also about the guys like PO...

My 17 caliber loneliness with not a single person around here I knew of to share it with took a major turn when I got started on the WWW and found this site, it turned into quite an addiction! I am so grateful for you Bill, BCB and all the great guys here who have contributed and helped paved a way for this lil ole country boy living out in the sticks...

[GLWenzl]

Oh and the part about Ray H was both a joke.... and a very sincere complement to Ray H for all of his small caliber experience and expertise. I had no idea who this stranger really was sitting next to me out in central Nebraska watching me try out my Ruger #1 218 Bee... not all my 6 kids recognize the name PO but they all sure know Ray H as being the godfather of 17s and more importantly, a great person like so many of you they have not gotten to know...