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  #1  
Old 08-05-2013, 10:07 PM
Larry Larry is offline
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Default Fun Range Day first 17HH reloads

First day of working up reloads with the 17 HH. What a fun little gun. Needed to get some velocity figures in my gun before I start serious accuracy work. All cases from factory rounds fired in this rifle, WSR, 20 gr Varmageddon, and AA 1680. Started at 10 gr up to 12.2
At 11.7 gr I was getting the 3625 I wanted ((in MY Rifle, YMMV)So started loading. Unfortunately the wind and humidity was making loading at the range too difficult today. Shot a couple of 3 shot groups .4 and .6 but real accuracy work will wait for a other day.
I did get to check one thing though. I was pleased when I got the rifle that a fired case neck miked .195 from a loaded factory round at .193. Pretty good for factory. The only neck sizing die I was able to find, however, sized the neck down to .1865 and the expander pulled it back up to .189, and then the bullet back up to .193 again. Way too much going on. Figured I would get no case life.
So I took 3 cases and loaded and fired them 6 times each. No problem. Primerer pockets still tight at the end, cases chambered easily and no split necks. Still would like to find someone to take it out to .190 or so but maybe it's a nonexistent problem.
So a good day with what is becoming one of my favorites.
Larry
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  #2  
Old 08-05-2013, 11:00 PM
montdoug montdoug is offline
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Great thread ! I haven't made it to the range with reloads yet and have been looking forward to reading about the results from the more industrious shooters out there, thanks!
I have a Calhoon 527 magazine made for his .19 Calhoon Hornet that he modified for an extended OAL among other things, I've set my seating depth with 20 grain V-Max's to fit that magazine. It's a lot longer OAL than the factory OAL length but still doesn't touch the lands. That'll be my starting seating depth till I figure what it likes best. So all I've actually done in the reloading dept is to discover that my Jim Carstensen overhauled CH4D .17 Killer Bee bushing die works perfectly as a bushing neck size die for the .17 Hornet and get the seating die ready for a starting point. Suppose to cool down a bit here so maybe I can start load development, laziness is an ugly thing .
Keep us posted Larry.
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Old 08-06-2013, 02:26 AM
Daryl Daryl is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montdoug View Post
Great thread ! I haven't made it to the range with reloads yet and have been looking forward to reading about the results from the more industrious shooters out there, thanks!
I have a Calhoon 527 magazine made for his .19 Calhoon Hornet that he modified for an extended OAL among other things, I've set my seating depth with 20 grain V-Max's to fit that magazine. It's a lot longer OAL than the factory OAL length but still doesn't touch the lands. That'll be my starting seating depth till I figure what it likes best. So all I've actually done in the reloading dept is to discover that my Jim Carstensen overhauled CH4D .17 Killer Bee bushing die works perfectly as a bushing neck size die for the .17 Hornet and get the seating die ready for a starting point. Suppose to cool down a bit here so maybe I can start load development, laziness is an ugly thing .
Keep us posted Larry.
I've been waiting to hear about someone's 'normal' loads in a new HH.

I've altered several CZ magazines - even sent one to a friend South of the border, once a-pon-a-time-ago.

The Wilson .17 AH necking die (hand die or arbor press) will also work for neck sizing the HH.

Neck sizing is all I've done on my .17's for going on 10 years now, AB and AH. They NEVER need to be FL sized and I'm running 3,925fps with 20gr. Vmax's in an Ackley Hornet. They are never tight and case longevity is incredible -& so far, no expanded pockets.

Even my .17Rem only got neck sized in a Lee collet set. Some of the guys here have made up a spacer for using the .17Rem collet neck sizer Lee die for sizing their AH's.
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:03 PM
montdoug montdoug is offline
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Anyone else had time to load for their CZ .17 Hornet? It's about time we start seeing some reports .
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  #5  
Old 08-06-2013, 10:43 PM
Alan in GA Alan in GA is offline
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Default loaded, but not shot yet..

I loaded some Z max 20s a half caliber deep giving plenty of case 'hold' onto the bullet and I believe I am touching throat/lead if the rifling. Anxious to pull the trigger.
Got once fired factory cases in my pocket after stopping at a buddy's house - his CZ 17HH is the one we put 800 rounds thru in Montana. Will measure and compare them to the CZ once fired cases I have when i get home. I started out small and loaded 11.0/1680/20Zmax since some folks, and a load manual indicated might be wise.
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Old 08-06-2013, 11:32 PM
boshoot boshoot is offline
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I've been wanting someone to post some reloading information on the 17 Hornet. I'm shooting 11.2 gr. 1680 and 20 gr. varmageddon bullets, but I haven't chronographed any of them yet. A man at the gun range had his chronograph set up and checked factory loads at 3675 fps in a Ruger 77/17 Hornet.
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Old 08-08-2013, 12:03 AM
Larry Larry is offline
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Default Daryl thanks

For that information on neck sizing the 17 Hornets. Perhaps This will be an easier caliber to reload than I thought. So far I love the accuracy, lack of recoil and performance on rodents from this little gun. New to me but not to you long time users of the various 17 Hornet wildcats. Really appreciate your input on long case life.
Having lots of fun.
Thanks
Larry
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Old 08-08-2013, 01:10 AM
GLWenzl GLWenzl is offline
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it really has to be the most FUN best balance there is for a nice flat shooting, mild recoil so you can see more , low barrel temps and best of all it gets the job done…

Nothing better than seeing a young 12 year old laying on the ground popping PDs in the 250-300 yards range fairly consistently from the prone and a bipod…
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  #9  
Old 08-08-2013, 05:00 PM
20 EXTREME 20 EXTREME is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montdoug View Post
Great thread ! I haven't made it to the range with reloads yet and have been looking forward to reading about the results from the more industrious shooters out there, thanks!
I have a Calhoon 527 magazine made for his .19 Calhoon Hornet that he modified for an extended OAL among other things, I've set my seating depth with 20 grain V-Max's to fit that magazine. It's a lot longer OAL than the factory OAL length but still doesn't touch the lands. That'll be my starting seating depth till I figure what it likes best. So all I've actually done in the reloading dept is to discover that my Jim Carstensen overhauled CH4D .17 Killer Bee bushing die works perfectly as a bushing neck size die for the .17 Hornet and get the seating die ready for a starting point. Suppose to cool down a bit here so maybe I can start load development, laziness is an ugly thing .
Keep us posted Larry.
This would have been a much better thread if the temperature had beeen indicated. I posted the following before but it was apparently overlooked or ignored.
I did not reload any ammo with AA 1680 but I did load new brass with 12.0 grains and got 3664 with the 20 V-Max at 2 Celsius. The load was compatable with the factory ammo and was developing approximatly the same pressure. I fireformed the 100 brass with no problems and felt quite comfortable with the load as Hornady show 12.4 grains and 3750 as Max.

Load data from Western Powders is quite different as they list pressures. The Hornady case is rated at 50,000PSI so AA 1680 maxed out at 11.2 grains giving 3493fps and 49,657 PSI. At that rate the 12.0 grain load should do 3742 and develop 53,204 PSI. In light of the blown primers with the factory ammo it is quite likely that my 12.0 grain loadwould have done the same at 95 degrees. To be safe AA 1680 at 11.2 should be max. AA 2200 is a better powder to use and safely delivers 3606 fps with the Nosler 20 Varmageddon .


It disturbes me that Hornady are ignoring what many of us have been reporting. There is definatly a pressure problem with their factory ammo at hotter tempertures. This is very likely true of the AA1680 loads that they show in their manual as well

It also disturbes me that loads, exceeding the Ramshot pressure tested maximum, are being posted as "safe in my rifle" when they obviously exceed the Saami Maximum pressure of 50,000 PSI. These loads were "safe in my rifle" at 34 degrees but obviously not at 80+ degrees as others have pointed out. Loads should be worked up at the hottest temperature that they will be subjected to, especially temperature sensitive powders like AA 1680 and whatever the 12.0 grains that Hornady is using. Rather than posting that you have not had any problems with your CZ, 17 HH, perhaps you should be out testing the factory ammo and working up loads when the temperature is hot.

As I have posted before, and confirmed by Ramshot, AA 2200 is a better powder choice for the 17 HH. Industrious handloaders who want to safely get 3600 + fps with 32 grain bullets should be using it. Here is a ladder I did to determine pressure with the 20 Nosler VG and the 25 V-Max early this spring when the temperature was at 34 degrees and before Ramshot published their pressure data.
[IMG][/IMG]
Ramshot's max is 13.2 grains @ 3606 for AA 2200 and the 20 Nosler VG. My three shot ladder shows good potential with a .5" group for three shots. However 13.0 to 13.2 should produce great results at hotter temperatures. The 25 V-Max ladder showed potential and was safe at over the 12.4 grain max at 34 degrees. Follow up at 60+ degrees proved that 12.1 grains is a winner. Perhaps the CZ will shoot differently but I doubt it.
[IMG][/IMG]
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  #10  
Old 08-08-2013, 05:31 PM
Daryl Daryl is offline
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Sorry about that, 20Extreme - I do remember your previous posts - that's the trouble with getting old, and forgetful. Thankfully, the DATA numbers stay with me.

Temperature is a VERY important consideration in these little rounds. Too - whether a bullet is moly coated or not also makes another difference.

This year, I have reduced my loads - safe at all temps with moly coated 20 and 25gr. Vmaxs in my .17AH to 10.1 and 10.2gr.(WW and RPbrass) with non coated bullets, just barely over what Hodgdon or Hornady list for the HH. That concerns me. Those loads now seem OK in all temps in my AH - it's been hot here - well hot for here - well over 80 while shooting rats, yet nary a problem.

With moly coated bullets I had been using up to 10.4gr. LG. without an concerns, but made a mistake of loading some bare bullets with that load and had some extraction stickiness at warm barrel temps, hence the reduction.

I've been told that Hornady or Hodgdon lists 10.0gr. Lil'Gun as max, in the HH. I've seen that in print in a Handloader magazine article as well. I am wondering how that load will handle the higher temps. It seems many people are foregoing the experimentation procedure we all know is necessary to stay out of trouble - start low and work up. I did exactly that myself when switching from moly to bare bullets and I got sticky extraction for my folly.
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