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  #21  
Old 11-18-2006, 01:17 PM
GLWenzl GLWenzl is offline
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I did not post here because it looked like you guys did a great job of covering everything. However I decided to post a copy/paste from an e-mail I sent out because I have been contacted by a couple guys via e-mail about going from no reloading equipment straight to some of the smallest 17 calibers. Just some things to think about....

I “think” Daryl (on Saubier) used a17 HMR barrel for something and I believe it worked well as a centerfire barrel. I am thinking it was a Green Mountain SS Bull barrel???

I forgot to finish typing what I was thinking??? I’ll blame it on working 12-14 hours a day plus a (couple hrs driving) for the last 45 days or so and working straight through for a portion until last weekend and now am getting the weekends off so I’ll blame it on being over tired but I had it in my mind when I replied the first time and must of forgot before I go it written down…

On the Squirrel case it requires many extra reloading tools if you make your own cases. Form dies; a way to cut off the cases, a neck turning tool and then the cases should be annealed….

5 mm mag/17 CCM brass requires a great deal more however it is all done when you purchase them and you pay for it at 60.00 @100. I am not sure how much the squirrel cases go for but you can check it out at http://woodchuckden.com/ .

I am not trying to discourage you but want you to recognize everything before you purchase a press, powder measure, scale and all the other many things needed to play with some of these small cases. This is a super fun hobby for me and I really didn’t start out like you are planning to do, sort-a- grew into it??? Don’t want to see you get discouraged and all of your stuff ends up for sale!!!

Above all else be safe! A grain of powder in these small cases can make a huge difference. You have to know exactly what you are doing and be able to recognize any abnormally and what the expected results will be. Trust but verify, you see a load on the net be sure to verify everything and think about it hard before pulling the trigger on your gun with “that” load. I make many typos and like I said before 1 grain might make the difference between a safe load in one riffle and a gun blow-up in another… That said if I can do this anyone can (and I mean that) so good luck to ya, gw

PS I might copy/paste this to saubier for others whom are considering reloading these small cases….
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  #22  
Old 11-18-2006, 08:46 PM
Alex Alex is offline
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Default 17 Sq is...

..., according to Dan Pickett, the most dangerous caliber Cooper chambers for.

I'd have to try to steer they away from the 17Sq, to the 17AH. You can still screw up, but it's a little more difficult. I learned to reload on a 22H, and had a ball doing it.

I concur completely with your sentiments, but think that for a new reloader, the 22H and then a 17AH would be the way to go.

Alex
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  #23  
Old 01-26-2007, 02:52 AM
Bayou City Boy Bayou City Boy is offline
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Default Two kinds of Internet reloaders scare me......

1. Those who want "pet" loads for a certain cartridge and bluntly say they don't own a reloading manual, "so please help me"...

AND

2. Those who publish a load on the Internet that is over max in most manuals but state that the load is perfectly safe in their rifle because, "Everyone knows reloading manuals and powder companies are conservative in what they publish".

I just hope I'm not sitting beside one of them at a rifle range when something unexpected happens.

JMO - BCB
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  #24  
Old 05-26-2007, 02:21 PM
Crowhunter Crowhunter is offline
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Default Pet Loads

I think the safest thing to tell people who want pet loads is the components that you use: powder, primer, case, bullet and let them find their own load. Anyone who does not know that chambers and barrels vary from rifle to rifle, or who has not looked at two or more reloading manuals probably should not be reloading.
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  #25  
Old 01-29-2008, 05:34 PM
GLShooter GLShooter is offline
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I had a "learning" experience last summer with a beautiful CZ 527 in 204. It decided to come unglued while I was PD shooting in northern Arizona. Froze the bolt, cracked the stock from behind the forward sling stud through the left side of the pistol grip. One LARGE crack!! Blew the extractor out. I caught a piece of metal (the extractor rivet) above the right eye in my eye brow area and several pieces of HV wood in the cheek and nose. Lots of blood ( scared my stepson REAL bad!!) but zero permanent damage.

The load was "published" max by a powder manufacturer. I had shot about 150 rounds of it with no problems. Velocities were not excessive for the bullet weight. The OAL seating was over max but the rifle had a large amount of room to the lands. (I've been loading over thirty years and can measure a throat.)

Anyway I sent the rifle out for a repair and picked up a 700 204 to shoot in the meantime. I just couldn't understand what happened to the CZ and it was driving me crazy. I had weighed all charges and had been using new brass. No powder or primer lot changes. Nothing unusual on the round fired previously.

I was getting set up to load for the new 700 and picked up a fired case from the CZ and was looking over the shoulder measurement with an RCBS Case Mic. It was over zero by 0.002 so the chamber was about right in sizing. I picked up a piece of unfired brass and it was right at zero. Then I picked up a piece of loaded ammo. (This was in NEW brass) It measured 15 thousandths (0.015) BELOW zero!! Needles to say I got some really cold chills.

I had about 150 loaded rounds that were with the previous load and checked all of them with a the Mic. about 40 % were undersized from 0.009 to 0.020 compared to new untouched brass. I had bought 500 pieces of brass for this rifle. 300 were one lot and 200 were another. I had rounded the necks, uniformed pockets and flash holes, chamfered the case mouths, primed and loaded these rounds. I HAD NOT resized the cases so the shoulders had not been touched.

I sent some case of all sets both unfired and fired along with some of the short shouldered loaded ammo to the manufacturer. They sent me a note back and told me they could find nothing wrong with the cases.

The ratio of one lot to the other was 2 to 3 or about 40%. The measured remaining rounds that were bad was about 40%. Now my old gunsmith told me there are no such things as coincidence in material/machine work so something must have been out of whack.

I threw away all 500 pieces of that brass and bought new. So far the new stuff has showed no shoulder movement on loading.

Just my experiences that may be germane to this discussion.

Greg
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  #26  
Old 12-19-2013, 06:01 PM
montdoug montdoug is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLShooter View Post
I had a "learning" experience last summer with a beautiful CZ 527 in 204. It decided to come unglued while I was PD shooting in northern Arizona. Froze the bolt, cracked the stock from behind the forward sling stud through the left side of the pistol grip. One LARGE crack!! Blew the extractor out. I caught a piece of metal (the extractor rivet) above the right eye in my eye brow area and several pieces of HV wood in the cheek and nose. Lots of blood ( scared my stepson REAL bad!!) but zero permanent damage.

The load was "published" max by a powder manufacturer. I had shot about 150 rounds of it with no problems. Velocities were not excessive for the bullet weight. The OAL seating was over max but the rifle had a large amount of room to the lands. (I've been loading over thirty years and can measure a throat.)

Anyway I sent the rifle out for a repair and picked up a 700 204 to shoot in the meantime. I just couldn't understand what happened to the CZ and it was driving me crazy. I had weighed all charges and had been using new brass. No powder or primer lot changes. Nothing unusual on the round fired previously.

I was getting set up to load for the new 700 and picked up a fired case from the CZ and was looking over the shoulder measurement with an RCBS Case Mic. It was over zero by 0.002 so the chamber was about right in sizing. I picked up a piece of unfired brass and it was right at zero. Then I picked up a piece of loaded ammo. (This was in NEW brass) It measured 15 thousandths (0.015) BELOW zero!! Needles to say I got some really cold chills.

I had about 150 loaded rounds that were with the previous load and checked all of them with a the Mic. about 40 % were undersized from 0.009 to 0.020 compared to new untouched brass. I had bought 500 pieces of brass for this rifle. 300 were one lot and 200 were another. I had rounded the necks, uniformed pockets and flash holes, chamfered the case mouths, primed and loaded these rounds. I HAD NOT resized the cases so the shoulders had not been touched.

I sent some case of all sets both unfired and fired along with some of the short shouldered loaded ammo to the manufacturer. They sent me a note back and told me they could find nothing wrong with the cases.

The ratio of one lot to the other was 2 to 3 or about 40%. The measured remaining rounds that were bad was about 40%. Now my old gunsmith told me there are no such things as coincidence in material/machine work so something must have been out of whack.

I threw away all 500 pieces of that brass and bought new. So far the new stuff has showed no shoulder movement on loading.

Just my experiences that may be germane to this discussion.

Greg

Very much so and I'm so glad you are alright!!! Something hits a guy right above the eye and it'd be pretty tough not to consider what might have happened had it been a little lower !!
This thread mentions so many things that are variables that sometimes I think we get a bit complacent and forget. In your case it seems it wasn't something a guy would even think about. Once again, glad you're ok.
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  #27  
Old 10-02-2019, 01:14 PM
ackleyman ackleyman is offline
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Default Loads

I have ran into quite a few individuals that do not know how to work up loads or they do not have the patience for working up loads, perhaps their time is very limited.

They hunt for "A LOAD", then try it. This is similar to trying to hit the center of a dart board, throwing darts, where you keep throwing darts until the laws of probability finally allow you to hit the center.

Unfortunately, some loads are just dangerous, and there are typo's in internet messages.

Also, a guy maybe stating his load that he worked up in 45* temps, then you try that same load in the Summer at 90*, and you blow a primer.


As we get older, some of us just remember things wrong...

If you see a guy is having great success with a load, back off some and work up. N120 and Little gun are perhaps two of the very worst in spiking pressures in small cases where neck dimension and bore dia can wreak havoc.
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  #28  
Old 10-02-2019, 05:25 PM
moorepower moorepower is offline
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Whenever you see a load that is 2-300 fps and the words "safe in my gun" run away. My knowledge is limited compared to most here, but I have a friend who works in the ballistic lab at the company that guys are constantly saying that their loads are weak, because of the lawyers. All of their test barrels are min spec and every load is either checked cup or psi with the powder they purchase. When I call for data/ advice he can tell me the ending psi on every load, even though its not published, and IDK if anyone can call and get it, so I won't share it. When you work up a load and don't use the primer, brass and the lot of powder, you will not get the results they did and the psi will be different. If brand B, H, N or S says I can get 3800 with a bullet in said caliber, I will use that as a guideline when working up a load for it. To "me" the tactical guys are the worst offenders. 605CM is a common one. Guys will be trashing a make of brass for the primer pockets are not taking more than 2 reloadings when they are pushing 200 fps or more over published data, because they know how brand X's lawyers won't let them publish max psi data. Darwin had some ideas about those guys.
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