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  #1  
Old 11-01-2008, 10:49 PM
KenK KenK is offline
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Default 25-.221 Fireball

I've never fooled with wildcat cartridges and while it appears the .221 Fireball necked up to .25 caliber has been done it does not seem to be very common/popular.

If I ordered a chamber reamer from Pacific and a set of dies from Redding could I reasonably expect everything to work? The thing that seems like it would be hit or miss is the throating, not having a dummy cartridge or a print.

I would certainly talk to the respective companies before I actually ordered but I'm not far along enough in my plans to waste their time yet. On the other hand, BB denizens have plenty of time to answer day dream type questions.

BTW, I'm thinking about buying one of the Remington 700 Classics already in 221 Fireball and having my gunsmith install a somwhat heavier barrel.
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  #2  
Old 11-02-2008, 12:50 AM
jim barker jim barker is offline
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Why don't you consider necking to 6mm instead. You could use cut down 6x45 dies and I think forming would be easier.
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  #3  
Old 11-02-2008, 01:28 AM
Mulerider Mulerider is offline
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Ken: anything based on the Fireball ought to be fun, but I'm thinking the lack of lightweight .257 bullets could be a major handicap. The Hornady 60gr for the 25-20 is about the only one out there, and the 75-85 gr pills may cause that little case to hurt itself!
Maybe the 25 Hornet folks have found a light bullet source.

Greg
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  #4  
Old 11-02-2008, 12:48 PM
KenK KenK is offline
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It seems like it should work well with the excellent Sierra 75 grain bullet or cast bullets up to 100 grains. It would have a significant increase in powder capacity over the venerable 25-20 Winchester.
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  #5  
Old 11-02-2008, 01:22 PM
Brooks Brooks is offline
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Default I once necked up

. the Hornet case to 6mm. It shot reasonably well in the accuracy dept. but the velocity was marginal at best for clean kills. The fireball case has somewhat more case capacity but the 25 cal bullets in the lighter weights would limit the range to maybe 150 yrs. The old 60gr are useless unless one is shooting squirrel at 25 or so yards. Don’t know about the larger 25’s but would suspect the velocity would be marginal.
Brooks
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  #6  
Old 11-02-2008, 01:23 PM
foxhunter foxhunter is offline
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you need to align all the stars in a row. first you need to decide the chamber spec's and get a reamer print drawn up. next provide the print to the the die maker so he can match the die to the chamber. i would go with a bushing type die, which will allow you to match the cartridge neck to the chamber so the neck only expands .001 when a bullet is seated. the expansion of the neck when fired should be no more than .002.

there are some that will say , get the reamer print, have the dies made , make your dummy cases and then have the reamer made from the dummies.
this to will work, but die makers are pretty savvy people and work from reamer prints all the time, your call.
the other option is a redding type s bushing die for the 221 fb, replace the .224 bushing with a proper 25 caliber bushing to match your chamber neck dimensions.

once you have your reamer and dies set you need to pick a barrel with the rate of twist to meet your needs. speed of bullet can compensate for slow twist, you're not going to have speed so i would look at a little quicker twist if you are going to shoot 100 gr bullets. you won't loose anything with the 75's

pac-nor makes a 1-9 and 1-10 three grove barrel, i have a 1-9 on my 250 AI and it shoots everything from 75-120's.

i would think this would make a great coyote- groundhog cartridge but if it were me i would go with the 25 copperhead (25-222 rem.). it would be easier
to form and dies and reamers and load data already exist.

just my 2 cents.

bob
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  #7  
Old 11-02-2008, 06:40 PM
nvreloader nvreloader is offline
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Default Food for thought?

Another way to do it, might be this way? Find the case you want to play with, get an removeable pilot reamer in that caliber (Start with the SMALLEST CALIBER made). Then you can just change pilots for the size you want to play with.

I learned this trick from MASTER Gunsmith, Wes Ugalde, 22 thru 30 caliber (TCU) Ugalde case designs. Wes used the same reamer for ALL his calibers, he had the 22 Ugalde made and then just changed the pilot size to what ever caliber he wanted made. He then used a neck and throat reamers to set the spec's the customer wanted etc.

A 17-221 reamer could be any thing from a 17 cal to 35 cal, all on the same reamer, 17-222 would be the same etc, just about any reamer would work, you just have to sit down and do your homework. Beside it is cheaper in the long run than having reamers ground for each and every case design.

The 17 Kit Fox is already set up for this option, I can go from 17 to 30? cal all on 1 reamer, by just changing the pilot diameter, there is a 17,20 & 22 cal Kit Fox's prowling the Nevada desert somewhere.

I would choose the MOST COMMON BASIC BRASS available which happens to be the 223, 308 and 30/06 brass, then you won't find your self hunting brass to keep shooting Yes, we all want a case that the average shooter doesn't have, this is why I have started sizing the 223 case down to 5.7 case spec's and too see the results
Don
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  #8  
Old 11-02-2008, 06:43 PM
Idaho Bob Idaho Bob is offline
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I agree with last post-- go to 25-222 Copperhead. Just built one up for son and its a coyote killing machine. 75 @ 87 grainers at 2600 to 2700 average. Easy to load , dies available etc.
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  #9  
Old 11-02-2008, 06:54 PM
Johnly Johnly is offline
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This sounds like somewhere between a rimless version 256 Winchester and a 256 Maximum. The nice thing about a rimless 256 Winchester is that it wouldn't be a custom die set.

John
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  #10  
Old 11-02-2008, 07:02 PM
bcp bcp is offline
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A 221 reformed to 256 and not trimmed would add about 1/10 inch to the short neck of the 256.

Bruce

Lengthened and de-rimmed by computer:

Last edited by bcp; 11-02-2008 at 07:16 PM.
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