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  #11  
Old 11-11-2019, 09:49 AM
kenbro kenbro is offline
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Buy a Lee collet neck die if available for that caliber.
Ken.
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  #12  
Old 11-11-2019, 02:10 PM
Teancum1 Teancum1 is offline
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Default Reducing expander ball

I'll back up and explain a bit more since I'm not typing on my phone now.
I had several cases with very poor neck tension - meaning I could shove the bullets down the case mouth by hand after seating. So I carefully re-set my seating die - and that was the reason for going down 1/8 turn, trying to get a bit of crimp. That didn't work, as I was then pushing the shoulder back, which is something I didn't even know was possible in the seating die. Polishing a couple of thousandths off the expander ball should have nothing to do with pushing a shoulder back (correct me if I am wrong). That is only going to occur with the actual seater die adjustment - not the sizing, not the expander and not the bullet seating depth. The fact that I had some cases with poor tension, and no issues with virgin cases led me to believe that I may have too much spring-back, and therefore I should probably start with annealing cases. So, I annealed, I polished my expander down a hair, I have backed off on my seating die depth and I will try again. I just borrowed a collet bullet puller from my Dad this weekend and I will report my results.
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  #13  
Old 11-12-2019, 02:16 PM
Teancum1 Teancum1 is offline
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Default Shoulder set back resolved

While I still don't understand exactly how the seating die design can allow the shoulder to be pushed back, my issue seems to have been caused by:
(a) work-hardened cases producing too much "spring back" during sizing
(b) This resulted in poor neck tension, with some bullets held so loosely that they could be pushed back in the case mouth by hand
(c) My attempts to "crimp" the case mouth during seating by adjusting the seating die 1/8th turn down during seating resulted in the shoulder being pushed back without increasing neck tension.

Solution:
(a) Probably only needed to anneal case mouths and re-size
(b) I did that in conjunction with polishing down my sizing button a couple thousandths using Flitz. These two actions resolved the problems.
(c) In the future, if I want a little more crimp during bullet seating I will use a Lee factory crimp die.
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  #14  
Old 11-12-2019, 07:01 PM
Daryl Daryl is offline
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If the die is not sizing the necks small enough, then reducing the expander button will increase neck tension, yes.

If you are attempting any form of crimp on a bullet that does not have a crimp groove, ie: crimping cannelure, the case shoulder will likely be buckled when attempting to crimp the case into the sides of the bullet.

The use of a Lee Factory Crimp die, will allow (allows) crimping bullets that do not have a crimping groove. The standard seating die crimping ring will not allow this process without bucking cases. The collet principle
of the Lee die, crimps the case by applying side pressure all around the case neck pressing the case into the bullet - from the side. The crimp ring inside the standard seating die, forms the crimp by pushing the case
up against a fixed restrictive ring inside the die, thus buckling the case shoulder as the pressure is vertically administered.
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Last edited by Daryl; 11-12-2019 at 07:06 PM.
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  #15  
Old 11-12-2019, 09:23 PM
Teancum1 Teancum1 is offline
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Thank you for the explanation.
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  #16  
Old 11-14-2019, 04:02 AM
Daryl Daryl is offline
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You are most welcome.
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  #17  
Old 11-14-2019, 02:28 PM
coyotespotter coyotespotter is offline
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I don't use expander/decapping rod anymore on fired cases. Universal decapper(.22 and larger). Then the fl sizing die, the sizing die setup using comparator measurements(or the stripped bolt method). I use a mandrel die to get the inside of the case neck to 0.002-0.003(bolt gun) smaller than bullet bearing surface diameter. No crimping, even AR ammo, so my seating die is set 1 turn BACKED OFF the case mouth(unless die manufacturer instructions different). 17 and 20 cal I have turned the expander down so there is no contact inside necks, only decapping. I haven't had any "donuts" and I don't turn necks, even with a couple rifles having custom minimum saami chambers. Many years ago I experienced the same situation with the 7saum, setting the sizing die, inside neck diameter and no crimping eliminates that slight shoulder expansion that causes bolt closing issues. New brass I just use the mandrel die to make inside neck round and correct for bullet tension, since most new brass is short of headspace.
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