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Old 10-13-2018, 02:03 AM
Stan from Pa. Stan from Pa. is online now
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Default Cooper Muzzle Loader

Hello guys,
thought I would place this under big game since that is what game I'll be after with this gun.

All the Cooper fans on here, has anyone tried the muzzle loader offered by Cooper???

Does anyone shoot or have experience with the Savage muzzle loaders using smokeless powder?

Thanks,
Stan
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  #2  
Old 10-13-2018, 04:08 PM
Hog Patrol Hog Patrol is offline
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Stan, I have a Savage SML but the only thing original is the action/trigger. Went with a Pac-Nor .45 and an H.S. Precision stock. I bought one, shot it as a .50 for one year then went custom. Now four of my deer hunting buddies have them, all in .45 caliber. I chronoed mine last week, Hornady saboted 200gr. SST is just a touch over 2700fps. There are parts made now to convert a standard, non Axis, Savage action to an SML. IMO, for Pennsy ML or slug gun special reg areas, it's the only way to go. Get a good load, mount a good scope and put three shots touching at 200 meters. I have mine dialed in to 300 meters but some shoot further.
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Old 10-13-2018, 04:31 PM
Nor Cal Mikie Nor Cal Mikie is offline
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Never thought that much about "inlines" till I watched a guy sighting one in at the range. Couldn't hit squat till he changed loads and got a 2" group.
I get the muzzleloader season thing. If you're a hunter,cover your chances over a longer period of time. Do it all and throw in a little bow and arrow. More chances of putting meat on the table.
Seems like I heard somewhere that the Savage inlines can be converted to smokeless centerfire?
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Old 10-13-2018, 06:18 PM
Stan from Pa. Stan from Pa. is online now
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Default Smokeless Muzzle Loader

Appreciate the response guys,

The reason I asked was, Iíve owned a Savage for maybe 10 years and I like it, accuracy could be better, it seems to have lost some possibly.

I recently came accross this used Cooper ML and I checked about using smokeless powder in it, of course Cooper does state that theyíre not designed for smokeless powder. That should probably be enough to tell me not to use smokeless powder.
I removed the breechplug on both Savage and Cooper, the Savage breech plug is longer but the length of the threads on the breech plug are very similar.

I know Iíll probably be called foolish for asking a question about safety, but does anyone have first hand experience with the Cooper ML here?

Stanley
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  #5  
Old 10-14-2018, 01:56 PM
csterner csterner is offline
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Dammit you guys are going to cost me money.

Here in the east, we have a lot of populated areas that are shotgun only. Well, not really, because MZ rifles are also allowed. Today's MZ's are more accurate and more capable of 100 yard plus shots than the ole punkin balls and even the shotgun sabot loads. Where I hunt on the eastern shore of MD, the land is flat and has huge open fields. Shotguns are not very practical. I use my encore MZ and I think it's probably got a range of 200-250 yards. I'd like to get a smokeless MZ and that Savage kit might just fit the bill. If I can extend my effective range another 100 yards or more, it might come in handy.

Stan, the hunting show "true magnum" features cooper rifles and the one guy James Bryon, I think does most of his hunting with a Cooper MZ. He apparently uses the Blackhorn 209 powder in his and is effective over 300 yards.
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  #6  
Old 10-16-2018, 05:09 PM
Stan from Pa. Stan from Pa. is online now
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Default Savage ML

Hey Charlie,

Looks like these Savage ML's are going for a premium since they stopped producing them. There seems to be allot of controversy out there regarding these muzzle loaders, I do like mine.

I bought this Cooper in hopes of using smokeless powder, but it is not recommended. I had a good talk with Glenn at Cooper yesterday, I said removing the breech plug and comparing it to my Savage, they're very similar?

He stated this action they use is not heat treated, so it is soft. The barrel is a Wilson and is capable of center fire pressures.

He's a muzzle loader enthusiast and said he would like to purchase a Savage also but he will NOT be using smokeless powder in it. Doesn't make me feel warm and fuzy
He felt since BlackHorn powder has come out, it is such a great powder meaning cleaner that less people will be looking to use smokeless powder.

I didn't tell him how lazy I am and how I would rather kick back when coming home instead of cleaning my muzzle loader

Stan
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Old 10-16-2018, 05:59 PM
Hog Patrol Hog Patrol is offline
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If you're ok with a .50 caliber, Savage smokeless muzzleloader barrels in that caliber come up for sale now and then and they are relatively cheap. I sold a couple for fifty bucks a piece. You can take a cheap Savage centerfire, they come up on gunbroker for less than $300, buy the shotgun primer bolt head, get a stock that will fit the heavy barrel and put a .50 SML takeoff barrel on it for a total outlay of less than $500. Also, may be able to sell the centerfire barrel to recoup some of the cost. On the other hand, for a full .45 custom barrel, add another $500.
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  #8  
Old 10-16-2018, 07:44 PM
csterner csterner is offline
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yeah, I can get a new savage at cost from the shop where I work. I was thinking of going with a 10 heavy barrel (cheap) and the MZ barrel should drop in. Guess I could drill a hole in the stock and fit it for a ramrod?

As for BH209, I use it and like it in 2 of my MZ rifles. It's fast, accurate and CLEAN. You don't have to clean when you get home. In fact I fouled my bore Sunday for a hunt this week. I'll load up Thurs and if I don't get any action, I'll leave it loaded until the end of the season, if necessary. I did that last year. Even in wet, snowy weather, it still went boom and was dead on. There was no rust or fouling in either my SS Encore or my mom's cheap CVA blued rifle.

My buddy just bought a "Best of the West" custom MZ in 45 cal. He shoots 115 gr BH209. Similar numbers to Hog Patrol. He's rung an 8" gong at 800 yards with it consistently. He paid $4500 for it!!! It's nothing more than a trued Rem 700 with a custom bolt, breech plug, barrel and ramrod. Not sure if it came with a scope for that price but obviously WAY outta my league.

There's a lot of hoo-hah out there on the net about the Savage Smokeless guns. Lots of KA-BOOMS! I think I'll stick with BH209. It's that good.
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  #9  
Old 10-17-2018, 12:21 AM
csterner csterner is offline
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Just picked up an older Rem 700ML at the shop. Some guy came in and gave it to us with a Leupy 3-9. Just wanted rid of it. Piece of junk he said. Well ANY mz gun will instantaneously turn into a POS if you don't CLEAN IT. F-king thing is rusted, corroded beyond belief. Bore actually looks good. He rounded off the breech plug. Its stuck. Guess he never heard of cleaning and anti-sieze. It has the 209 nipple, but it's corroded badly. I found replacement parts for under $60 IF I can get the dang plug out and the bolt apart to change springs. Might give Doc Ed a call. Might just get a Rem pre-fit and go semi custom Fun winter project.
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  #10  
Old 10-17-2018, 02:46 AM
Stan from Pa. Stan from Pa. is online now
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Default Rem ML

Sounds like you found a project, best wishes. I donít have my head into this muzzle loader game to know all the latest and greatest things. I make a fool of myself almost every time I take my flint lock out. I just hate cleaning that dumb thing
Weíll give the used Cooper a whirl tomorrow with Black Horn tomorrow and see what happens.
I was reading late yesterday about guys that were using smokeless powder and mixing Powderís for their muzzle loaders, thatís scary to me
Stan
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