Saubier.com  



Go Back   Saubier.com > Saubier.com Forums > Small Caliber Discussion Board

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-24-2008, 07:59 PM
csterner csterner is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Gettysburg, PA
Posts: 1,904
Thumbs up new to forum and 17AH

Hi guys,

I've been a LONG time lurker here, since the board was started actually. I've known Jim and his family since the early 90's. We went to college together. I even sold Jim that new 17 Javelina of his. So far I've resisted the "dark side" of the force and haven't gotten bitten by the small caliber bug, but alas...it had to happen sooner or later.

I started to get a taste of the small calibers 2 summers ago. I purchased a CZ 17 Rem to hunt foxes. Never did get the dang thing to shoot. I think it had a bad crown and never spent any time with it. I'm a Remington fan and couldn't get used to the safety being opposite that of a Rem. 700. I hunt at night and didn't want to kill anybody by confusing myself with which way was "safe" or not. I'll stick with Remington.

Last year I got one of the first 17 Fireballs made. I work in a gun shop and had my name on the list as soon as I heard the news that Big Green was coming out with it. It was a plain jane Rem SPS sporter. I bedded it and did a trigger job and it shoots great with H322 and 25 grain Bergers. Just wish I could get 100 pcs of brass....

I've been reading a lot lately, like others, looking for the "perfect fox" round. Everybody's been talking how great the 17AH is. Before you tell me I need to hold onto my wallet, and that I need a purchasing mentor, just let me say I already have one here....Mr. Pruson. He sold me a 17HMR barrel last year for my Contender and I just bought his 17AH barrel he had listed here. Thanks Sonny!

Last night my dies came in and I formed a few 17AH cases, using the seater die first, then the FL die. They came out really weird looking, but chambered fine. I then loaded them with 10.3 gr Lil'Gun, CCI 500 primers and the new 20 gr. Midway Dogtown bullets. Today I popped them off.

The first one formed fine. There was a slight crater to the primer. The next two formed nicely also, but BLEW the primers. (in retrospect, I guess I shoulda worked up to that load (see Sticky note "Rifle to rifle load differences with respect to caution". My bad.).

Anyway, now that I know the basics of fireforming the 17AH, I'll drop back and load one or two at a time and work up to a FF load specific to my gun. Can't wait to get out and see how this thing shoots at the range.

Thanks for listening.

Charlie
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-24-2008, 08:42 PM
JoeZ JoeZ is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,002
Default Welcome

For foxes at night on this coast, probably no better than 12.3gr of N-120 and a 20gr V-max or Nagle. I F/F with 11.0 and a 25 or 11.5 and a 20. N-120 is arguably the best powder for the 17Ah like N-133 is for a PPC. I run 12.1 in the summer. It will flatten a ground hog out to 200 plus. Fun round.

The Fireball is a winner also. I left the 17Ah to go to a Mach4 for my go to calling rifle. Damage was same (none) and I extended my comfortable range about 75yards. Well the 17javelina had been on my mind. It was the first 17cal to really grab my attention. So I had a killer platform (L461) to get started with so. Hoping by June 1 Bob is calling me to pick up my new Javelina. Lilja is mailing the barrel May20. It is an addiction. I think Jim is the only one around here with any sense. Rayh will get you in trouble as will Mntgt and Cajun Blake. Pretty much beware of anyone around here with more that 150 posts. If you have been lurking you know the ones to stay away from LOL.

Just kidding, as much money as these guys have cost me. I have probably saved a ton in the long run and got an edjucation that is priceless. Best place on the net. Momma told me I would not be allowed to play here anymore if I would like to buy a Harley in the fall.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-24-2008, 09:38 PM
ray h ray h is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: central Md
Posts: 2,854
Default

Welcome Charlie, keep the 23/24th of Aug open for Jim's small caliber shoot at Thurmont Sportsman Club.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-24-2008, 11:54 PM
Alex Alex is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Tidewater, Virginia
Posts: 1,700
Default Charlie, the best thing you could do...

... would be to erase this location from your "favorites" and then "delete history" on your computer. This is one expensive place to hang out.

You may have too much headspace. Crank the FL die out just a touch at a time (1/4 turn) until the cases won't chamber. Then turn it in about 1/16 turn at a time until they chamber with just a touch of resistance. You are putting a "false shoulder" on the 22H case by doing this. It will hold the case firmly against the breach block and eliminate any slop. That will take care of your blown primer problem. Make a witness mark on your die and your press.

11.4 gr. of N-120 is a good forming load for a 17AH with 20 gr. VMaxes. If you have eliminated the headspace problem, 12.6 gr. of AA-1680 is a good forming and hunting load with the 20VMaxes. I know that this load will shoot good in that particular barrel if the headspace is correct! If not, Sonny found that it would actually cut the case in half.

After your cases are fire formed, you may have to change the position of the FL die, as not, instead of fiddling with the "false shoulder", you are moving the whole shoulder back. Again, work it back slowly until the cases just start to chamber smoothly. Make another witnes mark her with a different color or ikon.

Sonny is in the process of developing a "fur friendly" fox load. By next season, he should have it working great.

Alex
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-25-2008, 12:12 AM
T.Zimm T.Zimm is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 256
Default Welcome.

Welcome Charlie! Nice to see you "over here" now.... Hope you have a lot of fun with your new "tool". Keep us apprised of the situation. T. As far as Harleys go.....Mine is for sale to pay for more small caliber stuff!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-25-2008, 12:22 AM
microgun microgun is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: new jersey
Posts: 219
Default

I never had much luck with lil gun. It showed pressure signs long before it should have.Try aa1680 12.5 grns with 20 grn bullet of choice. It works great for me.As for fire forming dont wast your money on the bullets try 6.0 grns of bullseye and stuff rolled up toilet paper in the case neck. If you e-mail me at craneman38@optonline.net I have a ton of loads for the 17 ackley
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-25-2008, 10:52 AM
sicero sicero is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Medway, Ohio
Posts: 3,013
Default

There is no need to waste your time and money fireforming the AH. Just load to go hunting or target and shoot regular loads. About everyone I have ever heard about shoots as good or better fire forming as they do after. I wouldn't start with 12.5 of 1680. Better work up to that. Kenny
__________________
sicero

I pride myself in being able to make decisions with little information.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-25-2008, 11:38 AM
pruson pruson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Hanover County VA
Posts: 318
Default

Charlie

Alex is right about the headspace. The cases that I split open were in my Browning after having fireformed them in the Contender. Thought I could just simply refireform them, so to speak. Didn't work. Never had one split in the Contender though. It has a shorter chamber than the Browning. In the Browning it walked backwards.

If you are going to use that 12.6 or 12.5 load of AA1680 make sure your headspace is right. My Browning doesn't like that load, to hot.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-25-2008, 12:20 PM
Alan in GA Alan in GA is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,581
Default I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sicero View Post
There is no need to waste your time and money fireforming the AH. Just load to go hunting or target and shoot regular loads. About everyone I have ever heard about shoots as good or better fire forming as they do after. I wouldn't start with 12.5 of 1680. Better work up to that. Kenny
I have to agree. In fact, the reality of it is,,,I'm afraid my 11.7/1680/20Vmax fireforming loads just MIGHT be MORE accurate than my FORMED LOADS! Who'da thunk it?
It's not a waste to load up bullets for fireforming. Just make sure there's a ground squirrel or target out in front of the barrel and it's not waste.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-25-2008, 01:31 PM
Ackman Ackman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 609
Default

Actually, shooting toilet paper or some other filler is a waste of time. Fireform loads are just hunting loads that happen to also change the shape of a case. Hard to believe that even after this has been discussed so many million times, there are still people who don't know any better.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.