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  #31  
Old 02-26-2018, 12:30 AM
chuckshooter chuckshooter is offline
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Default 20 ah

first of all good observation. I tried a few at different heights and because the 218 bee brass needed to be blown out almost to a straight case, I went with what you see, I lost a total of 32 case out of 500, mostly to that split, a few others just to other damage . I have two firings now on the remaining 468 and am quite happy with them. if there is a danger, I am not understanding what it could be. but it is just a hornet. the other thing is trying to setup the bench source for that small of a case is a bit of a challenge. I am sure some expert can tell us how many firings it takes to work harden the brass back to normal. it probably depends on whether you full length size and how big your chamber dimensions are. any way I love my 20ah. I shot another 400 at squirrels last weekend and it seamed like there was no limit to how far I could shoot it. just go up another cross hair in the the scope , over one dot for wind and watch them flip.






Quote:
Originally Posted by hemiallen View Post
Just opened this and decided to start from page 1.

Chuck, IMHO your annealing of some of the above cases extends way too far into the body. I don't think it has anything to do with those splits, but from everything I have read, and know about annealing from my work, the color line shouldn't be that far into the body of the case. The brass anneals to the maximum in the color line region, but it tapers some into the area not discolored, IE some more of the body of those cases are softer than is suggested .

I may be misunderstanding the image seen on my computer, but from what I can see, I toss this out for your safety, and nothing else. A person was selling reformed fireball brass formed from 223 with similar discoloration well below where annealing is needed, and I copied the pictures and checked with a few friends. They all stated they would be very cautious with shooting his brass in a gun due to the softening of the support section of the brass. Annealing doesn't need to go much below the shoulder / body junction, and on short cases it is more critical than say 223 length cases, and also looks worse.

I may be wrong, and sorry if I am corrected by others more knowledgeable than my thoughts, but I feel compelled to suggest this as I understand it. I am sure a person with a particular gun "could" have no ill consequences with what I believe to be over annealing of the body portion, but in another gun the same over annealing may be catastrophic.
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  #32  
Old 02-26-2018, 05:18 AM
hemiallen hemiallen is offline
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Interesting.

Yes, I suspect if the chamber isn't much larger than the brass, the annealed body of the brass isn't going to create much of a problem, but it will allow the brass to "grow" more than if it were not annealed, and annealed brass won't spring-back any like you need to extract the spent cases. And the more straight walled chamberings are worse for extraction problems than tapered cases like say a 243, 22-250, etc. A K hornet is pretty blown out to very little body taper.

If it works, great, just allows more potential for having to FL size cases than if the annealing had stopped closer to the shoulder. Are you headed up a few hours due north ( wink-wink) when you've seen that mess of Skippies?

Glad someone is killing them vermin, I have a few more weeks before doing the same.
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  #33  
Old 02-26-2018, 07:10 PM
chuckshooter chuckshooter is offline
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Default up north

Quote:
Originally Posted by hemiallen View Post
Interesting.

Yes, I suspect if the chamber isn't much larger than the brass, the annealed body of the brass isn't going to create much of a problem, but it will allow the brass to "grow" more than if it were not annealed, and annealed brass won't spring-back any like you need to extract the spent cases. And the more straight walled chamberings are worse for extraction problems than tapered cases like say a 243, 22-250, etc. A K hornet is pretty blown out to very little body taper.

If it works, great, just allows more potential for having to FL size cases than if the annealing had stopped closer to the shoulder. Are you headed up a few hours due north ( wink-wink) when you've seen that mess of Skippies?

Glad someone is killing them vermin, I have a few more weeks before doing the same.
Yep, headed up north Thursday, but the forecast is for some bad weather, should bring reloading equipment to the hotel. two trips east already with high round count and perfect weather. oh well, take the good with the bad. LOL
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  #34  
Old 02-27-2018, 09:21 PM
Danny Danny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VAHunter View Post
Has anyone had this issue before??



I'm getting this about 5-7% of the time with the fire-forming load I'm using at the moment. (11.5 gr H110, virgin Winchester brass, CCI400, 35 Vmax square in the lands.)

When I was trying out Lil-Gun I was having about 40% failure rate.

Should be well under max pressure and didn't seem to have this issue with a small lot of Hornady brass I tried.

Think it's just issues with the brass? I've never seen anything like this before.

I had that happen on some 7.62 NATO brass I was using to run Highpower in my M1A. It was new, disassembled from loaded USGI ammunition. Brass was "RA64", if I remember correctly, but I can check later. I initially had troubles with neck splits, so, I started into the fun world of case annealing. That solved the neck splits, but then I got a body split like that and figured I should "call it" with that brass. I scrapped the whole 1000 lot. I now suspect, in my case, at least, the loaded ammunition had decomposing powder inside which compromised the integrity of the brass.
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I video recorded all of my Highpower Rifle matches. Pretty soon I am going to watch them all in reverse order so that I can watch those F Class guys GO HOME and leave us alone so that we can shoot Highpower Rifle.
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  #35  
Old 02-27-2018, 09:30 PM
Danny Danny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reed1911 View Post
The problem is with the Winchester brass not your loads!

We started seeing the same issue here which is why we dropped them from our supply. Not only are folks (myself included) seeing it in the .22K but also in the regular Hornet. From loads all over the map in terms of pressure with no easy discernible way to cull the bad ones until they fire.

Switch to one of the other brass makers until WW can get it cleared up. Not much they will do about the brass once fired since they have no way to verify the loads you used. But internal testing by WW should prove the issue to themselves.

I've had great luck with the PPU, Nosler, Hornady brass in the past few years.
Any time frame or lot numbers on the Hornet brass from Winchester that could be bad? I bought a few hundred or so new in the Winchester lot numbered bags. I want to say that I got it local retail just before one of the last component scares (I was thinking ahead). It was earlier than the seeming Hildabeast presidency scare, so it must have been bought just prior to Barry.

It is a waste to toss good brass needlessly, but on the other hand, one must take care.
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The 11th Commandment: Thou shallt not fold thy Pizza.

Products that I am looking for but can't seem to find no matter how hard I look:
Leopold Scopes, Forester reloading equipment and Victorianox knives.


I video recorded all of my Highpower Rifle matches. Pretty soon I am going to watch them all in reverse order so that I can watch those F Class guys GO HOME and leave us alone so that we can shoot Highpower Rifle.

Last edited by Danny; 02-27-2018 at 09:32 PM.
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  #36  
Old 02-28-2018, 07:04 AM
reed1911 reed1911 is offline
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All the issues we saw were from the newer 2017 and 2018 Red bagged Win brass. All the older blue bag and pre-bag have been fine. As for head stamp the problem brass is "WIN .22 Hornet"
Rather than the older "W-W" head stamp
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  #37  
Old 02-28-2018, 02:15 PM
william t. oviatt william t. oviatt is offline
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Thanks Ron....That's what the question was for us brass hoarderers!!!

Bill
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