Saubier.com  



Go Back   Saubier.com > Saubier.com Forums > Bullet Making

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 04-04-2013, 10:00 PM
george ulrich george ulrich is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ill.
Posts: 293
Default

I have copies of all b&a literature I can copy and send if you want its basic instructions on die setup and lube and such. george
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-10-2013, 09:40 AM
aaronraad aaronraad is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 53
Default

If you manage to get any of the B&A swaging die info into electronic format I'd appreciate anything you're able to share.

I'll read just about anything I get my hands onto at the moment.

Looking for info on draw & trim die design at the moment also. Trying to get a 1.25"-1.35" 257 cal jacket. Need to pick the right J4 jacket to start with to ensure correct length + ? to ensure the pinch trim works 100%.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-10-2013, 11:43 AM
george ulrich george ulrich is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ill.
Posts: 293
Default

I guess I can try to scan and send also have rorshach original directions.the draw dies are fairly simple and straight forward.the pinch trim die is alittle more complex not saying they can't be made, they can with standard machine equipment. theres just quite of few parts to make. george
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-12-2013, 01:59 AM
aaronraad aaronraad is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 53
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by george ulrich View Post
probably some type of nitriding would put a thin barrier .0003-.0005 which would be a help,hard chrome is to difficult to get it into a small any deeper than the i.d. of die. at makes the only problem I see with nitriding is you should relap die afterwards so you are removing some of the nitriding, also theres the extra cost involved I don't think its real bad but its more time and more cost.nitriding would make die harder per say but the grain structure is still there which is what makes steel dies harder to operate as compared to carbide which starts as a powdered metal actually are small spheres that are pressed under heat and pressure with a binder to form.think of it as sliding your foot on a cement driveway,and then sliding on same driveway with ice on it. george
I bought a Caswell Electroless Nickel (EN) Boron kit to do my new Barnard Model P magnum action (4340 steel). I specifically got the EN kit containing Boron, as I believe the Boron gives much better results than EN kits with PFTE for friction which wear too quickly.

From experience, basic EN's can be hardened to +60 HRC with heat treatment. I'll ask the queston of my local EN plating expert, to see what he thinks of coating tool steels and tolerances.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-12-2013, 05:10 PM
george ulrich george ulrich is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ill.
Posts: 293
Default

aaron, I have worked with e.n. when I worked on the outside it did help with wear resistance, but also seemed draggy for no better word at the moment. also have tried ptfe coatings these were very slick, but at the time same as chrome were very limited on depth vs. dia. I still feel ferro-tic might be a better choice over steel and not as costly as full carbide. I have a couple of pieces here just need time to mess around. george
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04-15-2013, 02:37 AM
aaronraad aaronraad is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 53
Default

I caught up with my local EN expert. He said the EN+PTFE solutions were almost impossible to apply correctly. I mentioned the EN+Boron Nitride solution and he commented that solution aggitation, BN grade and BN concentration were important. He gave me some 20-30 nm BN to try.

The NRL seem to be making some good progress with interstitial hardening (IH) of stainless steels with carbides. Producing a 20-30 um layer on 316L with a HV of 1100 (off the HRC scale). I saw a presentation by Paul Natishan in November last year that showed even under severe deformation, the hardened layer did not thin out or crack. They are focused on corrosion protection, but I can see IH possibly being applied to tool steels.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04-15-2013, 07:04 PM
george ulrich george ulrich is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ill.
Posts: 293
Default

20-30- microinches sounds like perfect amount and hardness sounds excellent how is finish when done tinitride is harder but actually has a higher coeffiecent than uncoated. I have some boron nitride powder around somewhere. it was being tried in barrels to cut fouling didn't seem to go far though. george
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04-16-2013, 01:37 AM
aaronraad aaronraad is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 53
Default

Here is a public link to the hardending of stainless http://www.swagelok.com.au/downloads...%20article.pdf

Might be a useful process for die material. Probably more useful for 416R barrel wear and corrossion actually?
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04-16-2013, 03:18 AM
TinMan TinMan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,800
Default

I've been reading the mail here for some time, and it has been very interesting. I don't make bullets, but have worked (metallurgist) in most of the industries you have been discussing, including carbides, tool steels, titanium, PM parts and specialty wear resistant coatings.

Personally, I would be concerned about using a very thin coating (IH) of any reasonably loaded 316 SS. I will read the Swagelok article tomorrow. You need to have the proper substrate hardness to support the coating. Think of it this way, if you step on a piece glass on a hard floor, you can probably step on it safely without breaking it. If you step on a piece of glass on top of a pillow, or some rags, you will probably break it. The design of good conversion coatings like the nitrides and carbonitrides have to be supported by the substrate alloy, same as TiN and TiC coatings done by PVD , CVD or cathodic arc. If you ever do go solid carbide dies, try to be careful of the cobalt content, whch can run from 2% to 20%, and that greatly affects the hardness and toughness of the carbide. The carbide grains size is another big factor, and for the fine finishes, strength and hardness, using a "sub-micron" tungsten carbide grain might a good choice. Hope this might help some.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04-16-2013, 04:55 PM
george ulrich george ulrich is offline
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ill.
Posts: 293
Default

that's a good point I didn't even consider, but being I only make carbide its really not an issue to me, and you are right on with colbalt content I prefer 8% micrograin its pretty easy to work wears well and doesn't seem to have flaking issues that the lower % colbalt have.still would like to see if I could use ferro-tic for a less expensive alternative.thanks for the input george
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.